Boilers - Home Heating Steam and Hot Water Systems - boiler boiling over
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puff
02-23-08, 10:45 AM
Hello, It seem's like my fire chamber is not getting hot as my tankless heater is and it's boiling over from my pressure releaf valve. Could this be from air in the system,or could it be from my gun being out of adjustment?The company I have come out to work on it was putting a .75 degree nozzel in the system. But it call's for a .80 degree nozzel which I put in along with a new filter when I had my last fuel drop. would this make a differance to the boiler's firing pattern? Thank you in advance paul
Grady
02-23-08, 12:51 PM
I presume you mean water is coming from the relief valve. If this is the case, what is the pressure gauge reading? Changing the nozzle would not cause it but you should not change nozzle sizes without having the equipment to test how the boiler is running.
radioconnection
02-23-08, 02:11 PM
Anything that changes combustion requires a combustion test. Did you keep the same GPH and flame pattern?
NJ Trooper
02-23-08, 07:20 PM
...it's boiling over from my pressure releaf valve. Could this be from air in the system,...
Paul, discharge from the pressure relief is caused by too much pressure in the system, air can not cause the problem.
It's _usually_ due to a problem with the expansion tank, that's the first thing to look at.
Speakin' of nozzles: There are three parameters on a nozzle, GPH (Gallons Per Hour), Spray ANGLE ( ° ), and Spray PATTERN ( a letter, one manufacturer uses A, B, or W).
You said " .80 degree " which seems to be a confushment of the terms. It might be a .80 GPH nozzle, it _could_ be an 80 DEGREE nozzle, and then a letter to indicate pattern.
A proper nozzle description might be .80 80° B or 1.10 60° A but what you described is basically meaningless...
Paul, discharge from the pressure relief is caused by too much pressure in the system, air can not cause the problem.
It's _usually_ due to a problem with the expansion tank, that's the first thing to look at.
Speakin' of nozzles: There are three parameters on a nozzle, GPH (Gallons Per Hour), Spray ANGLE ( ° ), and Spray PATTERN ( a letter, one manufacturer uses A, B, or W).
You said " .80 degree " which seems to be a confushment of the terms. It might be a .80 GPH nozzle, it _could_ be an 80 DEGREE nozzle, and then a letter to indicate pattern.
A proper nozzle description might be .80 80° B or 1.10 60° A but what you described is basically meaningless...
puff
02-24-08, 06:22 AM
Thank you guy's, The nozzle I put in was .85-80'-B which the system call's for it is stamped on the front of the furnauce. How do you check the expantion tank should there be air in there I found what look's like a tire valve at the bottom of the tank . I stuck a tiny screw driver in to see if there was water in there but there was none only air so I let all out . the air that came out was a musty smell . I kept the system running and checked it again no water or air came out. Could there be some thing like rust stuck in the valve where the expantion tank is attached? Thank you again Paul
NJ Trooper
02-24-08, 07:23 AM
Paul, you did the 100% wrong thing by letting the air out of the tank. The fact that you didn't get any water is GOOD, which means that your tank is probably not defective.
The reason that the air charge MUST be in that tank is because as the water is heated, it needs a place to EXPAND. Since water is not compressible, but AIR IS, the tank is designed to hold a 'cushion' of air that can be compressed and control the system pressure.
You need to put the air back in now.
You can NOT properly charge the tank with air if there is ANY pressure on the boiler. Here's what you need to do:
Grab a garden hose. Screw it onto any boiler drain valve. Direct the hose to a drain or a bucket.
TURN OFF THE BOILER.
CLOSE the MANUAL water inlet valve.
OPEN the drain valve, and let water out until the PRESSURE GAUGE on the boiler drops to ZERO.
CLOSE the drain valve.
Take a small air compressor, or a bicycle pump, and replace the air in the tank. You will need between 12-15 PSI in the tank. Use a good quality tire gauge to measure the pressure.
When you have the proper air charge in the tank, OPEN the manual water fill valve and check that the boiler pressure returns to between 12-15 PSI.
Turn boiler back on.
When the boiler is COLD you should have between 12-15 PSI on the gauge, and when it is HOT, maybe 18-20 PSI MAX.
The relief valve should not release any water now, as long as the pressure stays below 30 PSI. That's the pressure that the relief valve is designed to open at.
You need to do this FIRST, before you do any more troubleshooting, because if you don't, the relief valve will continue to open and dump water.
The reason that the air charge MUST be in that tank is because as the water is heated, it needs a place to EXPAND. Since water is not compressible, but AIR IS, the tank is designed to hold a 'cushion' of air that can be compressed and control the system pressure.
You need to put the air back in now.
You can NOT properly charge the tank with air if there is ANY pressure on the boiler. Here's what you need to do:
Grab a garden hose. Screw it onto any boiler drain valve. Direct the hose to a drain or a bucket.
TURN OFF THE BOILER.
CLOSE the MANUAL water inlet valve.
OPEN the drain valve, and let water out until the PRESSURE GAUGE on the boiler drops to ZERO.
CLOSE the drain valve.
Take a small air compressor, or a bicycle pump, and replace the air in the tank. You will need between 12-15 PSI in the tank. Use a good quality tire gauge to measure the pressure.
When you have the proper air charge in the tank, OPEN the manual water fill valve and check that the boiler pressure returns to between 12-15 PSI.
Turn boiler back on.
When the boiler is COLD you should have between 12-15 PSI on the gauge, and when it is HOT, maybe 18-20 PSI MAX.
The relief valve should not release any water now, as long as the pressure stays below 30 PSI. That's the pressure that the relief valve is designed to open at.
You need to do this FIRST, before you do any more troubleshooting, because if you don't, the relief valve will continue to open and dump water.
Grady
02-24-08, 08:04 AM
Trooper has given you excellent instructions on how to undo one goof. It seems you have made another.
If the service person installed a .75 gph nozzle & you have changed it to a .85, that is a major increase in fuel input. If you made no other burner changes, put the .75 back in & don't mess with the burner. If you want the .85, call the service company & get them to adjust the burner for that size nozzle.
If the service person installed a .75 gph nozzle & you have changed it to a .85, that is a major increase in fuel input. If you made no other burner changes, put the .75 back in & don't mess with the burner. If you want the .85, call the service company & get them to adjust the burner for that size nozzle.
puff
02-24-08, 08:21 AM
Thank you again guy's, I will do that right now and see what happen's. I con not remember where I had seen an artical but someone said that if they did not have spray nozzle they could use the .75 it was like universal was that wrong ?thank you again Paul I will post back later
NJ Trooper
02-24-08, 09:01 AM
use the .75 it was like universal was that wrong ?
Yeah, pretty much...
Whenever you change the nozzle size, you are changing the firing rate. This means more or less fuel, depending on which way you go, smaller or larger.
The burner MUST be adjusted properly to match.
Even if you stay with the SAME SIZE nozzle, the combustion should be checked with proper instruments, and adjusted for proper operation.
Yeah, pretty much...
Whenever you change the nozzle size, you are changing the firing rate. This means more or less fuel, depending on which way you go, smaller or larger.
The burner MUST be adjusted properly to match.
Even if you stay with the SAME SIZE nozzle, the combustion should be checked with proper instruments, and adjusted for proper operation.
puff
02-24-08, 12:10 PM
Iwant to thank you guy's :thumbup: ,I drained out the system put 15# of pressure back into the expantion tank took out the the spray nozzle I put in. And replaced it with the same I had in there to begin with. The boiler monster is back to it's happy self again nooooo more groweling :D thank you again Paul