Flooring Tile - Laying Tile....ugh...

Having some problems with my floor and I'm not really sure what to do.

I tried to 'do things right' and all that jazz; I put down backerboard and followed the installation guide in my Home Depot book. It said something like this....

'Step #5 - Tape the seams. Feather edges' or something similar.

So I did that, thinking I was doing everything right.

Now I'm putting down tiles and....Uhh-ohh...they don't seem level or flat. Why not? Because there is taped seams that stick up higher than the floor itself. Why did I want to tape them?

I'm guessing my problem is that I made my seams too thick; but what can I do about it now? I tried sanding the heck out of them; but it was ungodly slow and I went through all of my sandpaper.

Now what should I do?

You might try a 4" razor scraper. Then tape the seams as you set your tile so all the thinset lines collapse down evenly without the "tape first/tile later speed bumps"

My I suggest you throw that book away?;)

I suggest you put a big rubber band around that book so it won't come open then use it for a Frisbee, direct it towards the nearest river or ocean or mountain cliff and throw it as hard as you can.

YOU are not the first person to be victimized by that book. Is that the one from Taunting Press?

Use a rub stone and get rid of the old thinset and tape on the seams and start over or you won't be happy.:) Your tile edges won't match up either.

I wasn't clear in my first post...

I've not only done the seams - but I've started laying tiles. I have 3 boxes of 16x16 tiles put down. I followed the laying pattern in the stupid book I was using and I didn't notice they weren't matching up until I filled out the pattern.

So....I know I've screwed up bad here....but I'm hoping you all can set me straight on a few things...

If I pull up what I've done....
1.) Can I reuse the tiles? Or will they be unusable by the time get them off the floor?
2.) Will the backerboard underneath be okay to use after I pry off the tiles, or will that be ruined?

And finally....
3.) If I *don't* pull up the tiles, are they going to crack, or is this just a visual problem

If it helps, I can post up pictures of the floor and/or measure the actual difference between my most uneven tiles.

This sucks :( Live and learn, I suppose.

If I pull up what I've done....
1.) Can I reuse the tiles? Or will they be unusable by the time get them off the floor?


The tiles should be reusable but the big thing now is that "time-is-of-the-essence". The longer you wait the more risk you run of damaging both the tiles and the substrate. The thinset continues to cure (and bond) as time goes on.

2.) Will the backerboard underneath be okay to use after I pry off the tiles, or will that be ruined?

Same as above.

And finally....
3.) If I *don't* pull up the tiles, are they going to crack, or is this just a visual problem

If the tiles are supported by thinset they aren't likely to crack from forces above. Don't know about forces from below regardless.:)

I admit it; I screwed up my floor. I have about 1/5 of it down or so and the tiles aren't even.

My question is, when do you say, 'Crap, I'm going start over?' verse, 'Well, it's not perfect and I could do better; but it's just a floor'?

I've noticed here at work, we have some ceramic tiles in our bathrooms and they are *NOT* perfectly even with one another. I've been here 8 months and never once noticed.

So, if the edge of one tile is .5 inches higher than the edge of the next one....that, to me, is a HUGE amount and it would be time to start over....

What if it's .4 inches or .2 inches or .1?

If that makes sense...is there any 'rule' for what is considered a decent install or what is considered crap?

If a tile floor had "potholes" that a broom or mop under normal pressure could not clean, I would say it is a bit too rough. Other than that, your observation that slight irregularities usually go unnoticed is the same as my own.

When I did the tile floor in my bathroom, I was troubled by how badly it seemed to look while I was on my knees doing the grout. But now that some time has passed, I cannot even find those spots I had once thought were so bad!

Are you tapping the tiles into place with a rubber mallet and a 2x4 wrapped in a towel? You can even them up while wet, but if it's already set up, it's too late. Are you using spacers? They are a big help if you're not too experienced.

Are you tapping the tiles into place with a rubber mallet and a 2x4 wrapped in a towel? You can even them up while wet, but if it's already set up, it's too late. Are you using spacers? They are a big help if you're not too experienced.

Yeah, I have a level and a rubber mallet (although I haven't been using a 2x4 and a towel).

Basically; I put down backerboard and at the seams I put down some white-mesh material (I don't know what to call it, is that just 'tape') and followed the directions in my stupid little Home Depot book....but I screwed it up.

I put mortar over the tape and 'feathered' the edges like the book described. Then I waited and the next day, I started putting tiles down.

The mortar dried and is a bit higher than the floor. It seemed like such a tiny amount - but as I put down more and more tile, depending on where they fell on either side of the bump it was higher or lower than the things around it.

I simply did a really bad job on the tape.

I'm debating ripping up the tile I've done and scrapping of the mortar and starting with a nice, flat, level floor; the tiles that I have that don't cross a tape line are nearly perfect; they look fine.

I'm using spacers; so my lines look great; it's just that the edges of some are 'higher' than others.

Starting over would mean a bunch more work, and take time that I don't really have (I need to move into this place on Sunday; I don't have appliances, or a toilet that works or cabinets....) but I've already spent a bunch of time and money on the floor; so I don't want to waste all that...

RobDude: "...is there any 'rule' for what is considered a decent install or what is considered crap?"



RobDude why did you start another thread?

Mod note: (THREAD NOW MERGED)

This confuses things.:wall:

The variation in the surface of various tiles is known as "lippage". Lippage is inherent in all tile applications. It is the degree of lippage that is sometimes the problem. Tiles are manufactured in different ways and "warpage" is a characteristic of tiles also. Warpage can cause lippage.

In your case it was the substrate that caused your lippage due to the taping and finishing of the substrate seams too far in advance of installing the tiles. You have "that book" to thank for that I suppose.

Typically a lippage condition of 1/32" is allowable any more and well........

The substrate should be "plane" within 1/4" in ten feet or 1/16" in one foot.

Rob, Mr. Cline is the real expert, here, so his advice is always the best!

I think if you lay a level or a short board over 3 0r 4 tiles and it rocks, it may give you a better idea of just how noticeable (or not) it is. It may not look so obvious after it's grouted, either.

I understand you need to get finished, but please remember tile is very difficult to remove after it's cured, and impossible to re-use after it's cured.

Let us know how things turned out.

Consider getting more books (not from big box stores)

Tile Your World by John Bridge has taught me ALOT about tiling.


http://www.tileyourworld.com/catalog/product_info.php?manufacturers_id=12&products_id=38


I wish the books at big box stores told you more info, but they are written for the rookie DIYer in mind, so getting into substrates, deflection, etc, can get confusing.

Tile Your World by John Bridge has taught me ALOT about tiling.

Excellent book actually.

I wish the books at big box stores told you more info, but they are written for the rookie DIYer in mind,

And in some cases written by rookies.

It may not look so obvious after it's grouted, either.

There is some truth to that.

...please remember tile is very difficult to remove after it's cured, and impossible to re-use after it's cured.

Not necessarily - the sooner you get it out of there the less damage you're going to do and the tiles should be reusable if you don't wait too long. Times-a-wastin' talkin' about here.:)

Sorry for making a 2nd thread; I was thinking of them as different issues.

I want to thank everyone for their posts; I'm trying to attach a picture that I tried to take with my cell phone of the absolute worst lippage; it's hard to read the tape measure....but, it is pretty bad.

http://img515.imageshack.us/img515/3589/worsttileyw4.jpg

This is a shot of what I've done so far
http://img205.imageshack.us/img205/3623/tilestf3.jpg

I'm pretty disappointed.

I was able to pry up the tiles I put down the day before, but the ones from the day before that wouldn't budge and I didn't want to break them. So I was able to get up the 'worst' tile and I'll reset that and the others after fixing my under-flooring.

So, I'm not starting completely over, but I am fixing the worst of what I did. Still, I learned a valuable lesson and have two bathrooms to tile that I'm confident I can do a much better job on.

Thanks again for all the help.

That does look pretty bad. :o That one tile is probably too high, but it could also be that the other 3 are too low? I don't know how you're going to lower just the one tile. Remember, as you lower one corner, the opposite corner goes up.

The floor needs to start flat, otherwise everyone will know your floor was not flat and that you did it yourself.:wall: Maybe some rugs here and there?

Jaz

Also, don't feel so bad either! Everyones first couple of tile jobs are never perfect. You will learn from this and take that new knowledge and experience to your next project.

One of these can be great for smoothing a subfloor, when necessary:
http://www.goldblatttool.com/Product.aspx?id=339

By the time he finished with that stone to get the tile flush, he would be at the thinset....... :D

I first assumed everyone would understand the stone was not for smooting tile, but then I realized maybe I should clarify ... so I did ... :rolleyes:

That may not be your only problem, Rob...Did you snap any chalk lines to follow? It's hard to tell from your second picture, because it's a little blurry, but are those tiles traveling away from the wall? If each successive tile you are laying is getting farther from the wall, every single border tile will be a unique cut. It's easier if you've placed the top and bottom corner of your diagonal pattern on a straight chalk line.
Connie

I also noticed little to no thinset between those tiles so I qustion the coverage you are getting beneath them. What size trowel are you using there?

Have you thrown out that book yet? :)

I also noticed little to no thinset between those tiles so I qustion the coverage you are getting beneath them. What size trowel are you using there?

Have you thrown out that book yet? :)

When I put the tiles down, thinset would 'ooze' out from between the tiles; and then I'd wipe the excess away using an extra spacer. I thought the grout was to fill the space between the tiles?

Did I do that wrong too? :(

Nope, you are fine.