Gas and Oil Home Heating Furnaces - Help with running LP Gas line
Doityourself.com community forum was created to provide answers to all questions related to home improvement and home repair. Doityourself community can help you find information about how-to topics on small fixes to large remodeling projects. With comprehensive how-to content and expertly moderated community forums DoItYourself.com makes it easy to tackle even the most complex home improvement projects.View Full Version : Help with running LP Gas line
richkrt
01-28-08, 08:14 PM
Just signed up to this forum and not sure if I am posting this in the right place, but....please help:
I am a life-long DIY'er and generally do ALL my own home improvement/building/etc. I have found my quality of work and care of the job far superior to the "professionals" I have encountered. Not knocking the truly pro tradesmen, wish there were more out there.
to the point...I renovated our two-car garage into a family room this past year. I purchased a wall mounted LP GAS heater (ventless) to heat the room. (called in a pro for a heat system first and got a $4500 quote - OUCH...I have four kids to feed)
I have run iron pipe (water and gas) lines before, have the skills but lack the knowlede on some specifics.
My home is heated with LP gas. The line coming in the house is 1/2" soft copper (didn't know you could do this, but okay)
It runs directly to the current LP furnace (which heats the house), with one tee (1/2" x 1/2" x 3/8") off to the water heater (3/8" soft copper line).
I had planned on running 1/2" iron pipe to this tee and joining in there. (maybe adding a tee at the existing tee and moving on with my new line?)
My question is how do I connect to the the copper? After reading many postings on similar topics, should I
just run flex pipe? Can I?
I have to go about a 30 l.f. with several turns, etc. Access is difficult, so probably will be removing siding and going through wall joists in outside walls.
The copper tee is in the basement with drop ceiling so access there is pretty easy.
I am assuming this tee has flared fittings??? (looks like a compression fitting). Can I buy a fitting to tee off the existing tee to convert to i.p. threads? Should I just run a copper line? Frankly, the copper line idea scares me.
I asked at Home Cheapo, but....enough said.
Tried Noland (pro plumbing/HVAC supply) this morning, but they actually take Saturdays off.
I have the new LP heater ready with a short nipple (3/8" i.p.) coming out of the bottom of the unit, a union, shutoff, tee with 1/8" plug (per instructions), then bumped it up to 1/2" i.p for the journey my supply line (currently 1/2" & 3/8" copper)
How do I connect my new 1/2" iron pipe to the existing soft copper?
Sorry for the long-winded "question". Please help - I would like to actually heat the room before spring.
I am a life-long DIY'er and generally do ALL my own home improvement/building/etc. I have found my quality of work and care of the job far superior to the "professionals" I have encountered. Not knocking the truly pro tradesmen, wish there were more out there.
to the point...I renovated our two-car garage into a family room this past year. I purchased a wall mounted LP GAS heater (ventless) to heat the room. (called in a pro for a heat system first and got a $4500 quote - OUCH...I have four kids to feed)
I have run iron pipe (water and gas) lines before, have the skills but lack the knowlede on some specifics.
My home is heated with LP gas. The line coming in the house is 1/2" soft copper (didn't know you could do this, but okay)
It runs directly to the current LP furnace (which heats the house), with one tee (1/2" x 1/2" x 3/8") off to the water heater (3/8" soft copper line).
I had planned on running 1/2" iron pipe to this tee and joining in there. (maybe adding a tee at the existing tee and moving on with my new line?)
My question is how do I connect to the the copper? After reading many postings on similar topics, should I
just run flex pipe? Can I?
I have to go about a 30 l.f. with several turns, etc. Access is difficult, so probably will be removing siding and going through wall joists in outside walls.
The copper tee is in the basement with drop ceiling so access there is pretty easy.
I am assuming this tee has flared fittings??? (looks like a compression fitting). Can I buy a fitting to tee off the existing tee to convert to i.p. threads? Should I just run a copper line? Frankly, the copper line idea scares me.
I asked at Home Cheapo, but....enough said.
Tried Noland (pro plumbing/HVAC supply) this morning, but they actually take Saturdays off.
I have the new LP heater ready with a short nipple (3/8" i.p.) coming out of the bottom of the unit, a union, shutoff, tee with 1/8" plug (per instructions), then bumped it up to 1/2" i.p for the journey my supply line (currently 1/2" & 3/8" copper)
How do I connect my new 1/2" iron pipe to the existing soft copper?
Sorry for the long-winded "question". Please help - I would like to actually heat the room before spring.
hankhill6018
01-29-08, 05:15 AM
Before we go into the garage heater it self, there are a few things that possibly need to be addressed. My immediate concern that the existing gas lines will be able to handle the additional usage.
Based on what you're explaining, 1/2 inch copper tubing to the furnace and 3/8 inch copper tubing to the water heater, you may have undersized gas lines as it is.
Please provide the btu value of the furnace and the distance from the furnace to the tank so I can tell if you have sufficient gas flow to existing appliances. Also provide the btu value of the new heater.
As a side bar to the gas line issue is the heater issue. As I don't recommend vent free heaters at all under any circumstances. Is this going to be the only source of heat for the family room? If so, you need to consider another game plan. Depending on local jurisdiction, vent free heaters are commonly not allowed to be used as a primary source of heat. That is, for the states that allow them at all. If you're looking for gas heater just for the one room, I would recommend an Empire DV series heater. They utilize combustion air from the outside and exhaust the flue gases to the outside. I will tell you, they are more costly than a vent free heater, but a lot safer. These heaters can be found on http://www.empirecomfort.com. Once on the page, goto the link with the direct vent wall heaters.
Based on what you're explaining, 1/2 inch copper tubing to the furnace and 3/8 inch copper tubing to the water heater, you may have undersized gas lines as it is.
Please provide the btu value of the furnace and the distance from the furnace to the tank so I can tell if you have sufficient gas flow to existing appliances. Also provide the btu value of the new heater.
As a side bar to the gas line issue is the heater issue. As I don't recommend vent free heaters at all under any circumstances. Is this going to be the only source of heat for the family room? If so, you need to consider another game plan. Depending on local jurisdiction, vent free heaters are commonly not allowed to be used as a primary source of heat. That is, for the states that allow them at all. If you're looking for gas heater just for the one room, I would recommend an Empire DV series heater. They utilize combustion air from the outside and exhaust the flue gases to the outside. I will tell you, they are more costly than a vent free heater, but a lot safer. These heaters can be found on http://www.empirecomfort.com. Once on the page, goto the link with the direct vent wall heaters.
GregH
01-29-08, 05:37 AM
I will add to the warning about ventless heaters.
Manufacturers claim to be safe to use but they still vent the products of combustion into your living space.
This will add a considerable amount of moisture to the air and potentially trigger or aggravate allergies.
Also, some codes in addition to what hankhill6018 warned about require these heaters to not be used unattended.
The price comparison you are making with a professional installation may not be comparing apples to apples because it would likely include a vented model.
This could be a doable diy installation but the gas permit you need will confirm your line sizes and what limitations there will be in extending your current piping.
Manufacturers claim to be safe to use but they still vent the products of combustion into your living space.
This will add a considerable amount of moisture to the air and potentially trigger or aggravate allergies.
Also, some codes in addition to what hankhill6018 warned about require these heaters to not be used unattended.
The price comparison you are making with a professional installation may not be comparing apples to apples because it would likely include a vented model.
This could be a doable diy installation but the gas permit you need will confirm your line sizes and what limitations there will be in extending your current piping.
muzak
02-06-08, 04:50 PM
Sounds like Rich would be better off starting over with 3/4" flex PVC (exterior) from the tank and rerouting to the entry points in the house. That would generally have to be done by your gas company but if you're at all concerned about code that is usually it and my feeling is also that your existing lines are probably too small - likewise if you have old iron in the ground you're not going to want to put new additions on it. You might be able to get away with connecting 3/4 PVC to the existing iron from the tank; which can be done with the proper fittings. Then you can route to either 1 or more points of entry to the house via 3/4" iron again and downsize to your fittings.
And yes this is all from the experience of recently having to dig a new gas line from the tank to the house because a 30 yr. old line was leaking and this is how the gas company routed it.
My question is directly related to his but my task is much smaller namely an aux. power supply for a half size propane refrigerator. My choice is between 3/8" soft copper or 1/2 rigid covering about 10' from inside to a safe distance outside away from the house.
I'm wondering also if a standard 3/8 compression flare is worthy of the task on either end of a soft copper line or if it would be more prudent to use 1/2" copper. The tank is a regulated 20lb.
Thanks: if anyone can answer that here it might help Rich as well.
And yes this is all from the experience of recently having to dig a new gas line from the tank to the house because a 30 yr. old line was leaking and this is how the gas company routed it.
My question is directly related to his but my task is much smaller namely an aux. power supply for a half size propane refrigerator. My choice is between 3/8" soft copper or 1/2 rigid covering about 10' from inside to a safe distance outside away from the house.
I'm wondering also if a standard 3/8 compression flare is worthy of the task on either end of a soft copper line or if it would be more prudent to use 1/2" copper. The tank is a regulated 20lb.
Thanks: if anyone can answer that here it might help Rich as well.
Grady
02-06-08, 06:53 PM
Richkrt: I concur with Hankhill6018 & GregH's advice. Unvented gas heaters have been totally outlawed in some areas & their use highly restricted in others. Personally, I would like to see them outlawed everywhere.
Muzak: Check local codes on what is & is not allowed regarding gas piping. If copper is allowed & that's what you choose to use, get the plastic covered soft copper & use flare, NOT COMPRESSION, fittings. Do not use rigid copper due to the need for soldered fittings. Hankhill6018 would be better able to answer the size question but I'm sure 3/8" I.D. would be fine. Maybe even 3/8" O.D.
Muzak: Check local codes on what is & is not allowed regarding gas piping. If copper is allowed & that's what you choose to use, get the plastic covered soft copper & use flare, NOT COMPRESSION, fittings. Do not use rigid copper due to the need for soldered fittings. Hankhill6018 would be better able to answer the size question but I'm sure 3/8" I.D. would be fine. Maybe even 3/8" O.D.