Greening Your Home - Solar Wind, Geo-Termal, Water Conservation

Twelvepole: The myth of saving energy through "GREEN" is a misnomer to most in the general population. It is sad to say that our politicans have taken this stance to promote their agenda "for the good of the public".

Geo-Termal is a prime example. If you have over $500K to drill a well in an area of this great county to supply your energy needs, glad to assist. This does not include the cost of a geologist to study the area contemplated, nor the engineering costs to study the availability to provide the household, nor the sale of the product to the utility, which in most States must purchase the usused energy you can produce.

Also, consider the cost of the support equipment, which you would have to purchase to convert this energy to electricity.

Solar Wind. Place a 100 foot pole in your back yard, after permitting ,which may include comments, your neighbors, PETA ( you are killing the birds from the propellers), the city counsel and building engineers, all of the other ecological groups which will comment why it obstructs everthing you are trying to acheive for the good of the country and your pocketbook. Need I go on.

Water Conservation: When was the last time you went to flush. The new house will have appliances made in Canada. I will save water if you get my drift. Keep on flushing.


Society looks to our leaders to inform us of all impairments forthcomming in our life, however, when we attempt to change with the times the true economic costs associated with change will not allow the general public to comply.

As with "GREEN", take a guess, we are still coming out of a 10,000 year ice age. The glacers are melting. Thank God we have a plethora of water in the Great Lakes, doesn't help California. I can say the afore as I was raised for a short time there, was great. More information than you need to know.

Know back to the realsims I have been touting. Being a conrtactor in the 80's in the desert southwest when SOLAR for water was in great demand, as today. Tax abatements were the source of may conversions for most households and the busineses where thriving. Congress decided these abatements proved a drain on the income to the coffers of what, we do not know. Solar died.

Once again, look to the people you place in the positions to tell you what you need. Laugh.

The only way to promote "GREEN" is to be able to assess the long term investment in the project contemplated. If you live in the residence for your lifetime, not the average 3 to 7 years or less, "GREEN" might be the way to go, pursuant to your local laws.

If you have the monies to pursue this form of conservation you are either a politician pounding your chest for the imaginary good of the general public, or have extremely deep pockets. The only ones you hear of on the public channels have been chastized by the press to perform their monetary and/or civic duties because of alleged excessive energy waste.

Oh, by the way, how much cash has been received by the few who proclaim their fame for "GREEN" by cashing in on the many who have given to the farce of Global Warming.

As with any statement, please consult compentent counsel, engineer, or professonal contractor before you choose to give your residence the cost of going "GREEN"

Regards.......

are you trying to say that going "green" is a fight for greed and money? I think that going "green" refers to saving energy and living in a more environmental way. Purchasing energy saving appliances is saving your wallet and the environment... I see nothing wrong with that.

Oil and Gas,
So much bad information there...are you really suggesting people should not conserve energy or water?

What is geo-termal? You mean geo-thermal? Yes, geo-thermal energy would be expensive to develop, and would not be done by an individual. I don't think anyone would suggest a homeowner do that. But a geo-thermal heat pump is not too expensive for a homeowner to install and will pay for itself.

Again, wind power is constructed by utilities.

"When was the last time you went to flush."
I have no idea what you are trying to say here.

The same goes for the rest of the post.

If one looks beyond their immediate benefits the poster known as oil and gas makes a great deal of sense.

Let us suppose that you purchase a new "water saving" laundry pair. What is saved beyond the immediate lesser amount of water and possibly electricity used per load of laundry?

Nothing.

But what is lost (wasted) is the raw materials and energy to not only build the new equipment but also the energy lost in disposing (or recycling) of the used laundry equipment.

Lost also is the energy used in transporting both the new and used equipment to / from the residence to / from the manufacturer and recycler. There may also be environmental issues in recycling the old equipment.


Adding solar panels on your roof to generate electricity sounds good until you tote up what it cost in energy and resources expended in making the solar panels in the first place.


Replacing working equipment for the sole purpose of "environment reasons" is almost always a net loser. Certainly when faced with the necessity of replacing a non-functioning piece of equipment it is smart to look at the more energy efficient equipment but an even better choice, from an environmental stance, may be to obtain a used piece of equipment that has already used the energy and raw material recourses that would otherwise be used for the new equipment.


Of course if people were REALLY moved to do the environmentally responsible thing they would stop churning out more people. It is the vast increase in the population that has been wreaking havoc on our planet.

Someone told me that they priced geothermal versus conventional system for their residence. From three quotes, the individual reported that it would cost anywhere from $15-$20 K or more for geothermal. Calculations for payback period revealed 15-20 years. He went with conventional because he did not plan to live in the residence that long and would never see the payback. Thus, this is an example of why folks, who are already working within tight budgets, will not go with geothermal. I believe that this is the point that oil & gas is trying to make.

It boils down to costs vs benefits. Without government incentives, like the tax abatements mentioned by oil & gas, it is highly unlikely that you will see folks rushing to alternative energy.

Although oil & gas did not mention energy saving appliances, this could be considered a mute form of conservation because Fed. law mandates an energy saving sticker be placed on all appliances to show an average cost of savings/year for said appliance. It is true that more modern appliances are more energy efficient, but they do cost more. Thus, a used appliance may be a more cost effective option for those with limited budgets.

Going green doesn't have to cost the bank. I went through a number of local companies getting quotes on installing a water to air geothermal unit. The quotes ranged from $8500 to over $20K. This sent flags off in my head. This was much to wide of a range of numbers. It made me very uncomfortable.


Long story made short, (at least I'll try to keep it short) two years down the road from the start of getting quotes I have completed installation of a geothermal system on my own. The two years were used getting educated on geothermal and how to do the installation properly. Heat loss calculations are a must to size the system properly. Mine was a retro to my home. The primary heat source before this change was a 90+ Bryant propane furnace. Heating cost have gone from $360 to $400 a month during the coldest part of the winter down to about $100 at most using the geothermal. Keep in mind that with propane we kept the house temp no higher then 68 in the evening to 64 at night and 60 during the day when we weren't home. The upstairs would be closed off and the basement vents were all closed to keep only the main floor heated. With the geothermal unit we keep the whole house at 70 to 71 all the time except at night we will set it back to 68 for sleeping comfort.


Total cost to install my system, not including my time or labor (I work cheap for myself) is just under $4000. My pay back should be less then 1.5 years. The installation took me about two weeks working on the installation part time.


If you are willing to take on the risk of DIY the payoffs can be huge.


Regards,


Eric D

Eric, I'm mildly interested, but mostly just curious about your conversion. Could you give us a basic idea of what's involved? Pieces/parts and the work involved? I'm pretty sure digging is high on the list. ; )

I am really interested in knowing how you did this install yourself. I would like to know as much as i can about this. Can you please post the steps, parts needed etc. Also some good links to related sites would be highly appreciated.
Cheers,

Matt Lacasse
Certified Energy Advisor under NRCAN

Twelvepole is exactly correct. Yes, there are things that one can do to reduce energy, but in the long run it will cost more movey. This green thing is just a big advertising gimmick for people who are selling the same stuff as before but now calling them green. One can learn alot by listening to Twelvepole.

although the green thing is must cost many money, but I think it is very Worth to do it.

Pretty impressive, Eric. And that you did this yourself too.

Geothermal is probably the most efficient of the renewables but I'm contemplating roof top solar arrays for our house.

I think with solar PV the wide ranges quoted by contractors can be justified and has to do with several factors. When dealing with the subsidies, incentives, and tax credits, I've heard these can have quite a bit variance and be a bit involved. I'd also have roof work and sheetmetal work first. The only thing I didn't like about the one PV contractor I talked to was he rolled the subsidies into the quote, diverting focus from his company's income from state, county, and local coffers, while trying to make the product's price look low.

I think there are solar PV lease programs too now.

Good work!

I think the biggest stumbling block with any "green" product right now is education.
Nobody really knows for sure how much these "green" products really cost. and there are so many of them. Comparing one to the other is also mind numbing since each one may have a different function.