Painting - Stubborn paint bleed through problem

My house is about 30 years old. I recently painted over trim in two rooms with white alkyd enamel. The new white paint turned yellowish tan in about 4 weeks. I then painted over the discolored alkyd enamel with a coat of Zinser Shelac based primer. The bleed through continued. I then painted over the Shelac based primer with an Oil Base primer. I waited two weeks, and then repainted the trim white again, this time with latex semi-gloss. The two primers did not solve the bleed through problem. The trim along the floor is bright white (for now), and the trim around the doors and windows is a very noticeable darker shade of off-white. I have new carpet scheduled for installation in two weeks. I'm desperate and in need of some sound advice.

What was on the trim before you painted it. Was it stained or a dark color or a light color other than white?

I ask because I don't think its bleed through, especially if the trim along the floor is still white. Stain or non-white color could have been masking another problem.

Since the first coat was oil based, the yellowing could have just been the paint. Since then, you've sealed pretty well, so I agree with Bob it's likely not a bleed through.

What was on the trim before you painted it. Was it stained or a dark color or a light color other than white?

I ask because I don't think its bleed through, especially if the trim along the floor is still white. Stain or non-white color could have been masking another problem.

Bob: Thanks for your quick response.

The original trim was off-white. I don't know if the original paint was latex or alkyd. When I first painted over the existing trim with alkyd, it looked fine, but within about 4 weeks all the trim slowly turned yellowish tan. Now that I've applied two separate primers, plus a new coat of latex, the trim along the floor is much whiter than the trim along the doors and windows, and it didn 't take 4 weeks, it was immediate. I probably should have expected this, because when I applied the Oil base primer, it was also whiter at the floor.

Since the first coat was oil based, the yellowing could have just been the paint. Since then, you've sealed pretty well, so I agree with Bob it's likely not a bleed through.

I've also had my own doubts as to this being a bleed through problem. But regarding the initial yellowing, it typically takes months or even years for alkyd paint to turn yellow. This happened rather quickly, and the amount of yellowing wasn't minor. If you believe this isn't bleed through, what do you think I'm dealing with, and what do you recommend I do next to resolve this problem?

If it was bleed through, I'd expect the trim along the floor to also be turning a darker shade of off-white.

Look at the door trim - does it turn whiter as it gets to the floor?

Is this color change noticeable in all hours of the day and in all lighting conditions such as sunlight, incandescent bulbs, and fluorescent bulbs?

Good point Bob!

There are times when the surrounding colors, light, shadows, etc. can make paint appear to be a diffeent color.

BobF: I appreciate your assistance. The color variance is constant. The trim along the doors and walls is off-white, while the baseboard trim at the floor is a bright white....all painted from the same can of paint. The door trim does not get any lighter the closer it is to the floor. The color difference is much more pronounced at night when you don't have daylight and shadows to mask the difference. This color variance was also noticeable after each primer was applied, but local paint experts told me not to worry, because primers don't always cover the stain, they just seal it in, and I would have no color problem after I applied the topcoat...wrong!

I've received other ideas and recommendations on this issue, two of which seemed noteworty: 1) Possible contamination from a previous owners improper cleaning technique to remove possible nicotine stains. 2) I should apply an oil base primer, then 2 coats aluminum silver paint for it's great stain blocking capabilities, then one more coat of an oil base primer, then 2 finish coats of my choice. Yikes, including the 5 previous coats, that would bring the total to 11 coats of paint!

Pigmented shellac is the ultimate stain hiding primer, better than any oil base primer which is better than any latex primer.

2 coats of pigmented shellac will hide better than your proposed 1 coat oil and 2 coat aluminum. It will also be easier to cover with your enamel.

Nicotine stains can be hard to hide but generally 1 coat of a solvent based primer [shellac or oil] followed by a coat of latex paint is all that is needed.

Barring anything we might have missed, I'd reprime with BIN, inspect it after it dries and if there are any signs of stain bleed thru - reprime. Hopefully you can then enamel with no more bleeding.

If all else fails - sell the house :D :eek: :D or change colors :p

marksr: Thanks for your assistance. On a couple of test areas, I actually did try two coats of the Zinsser Shelac Based primer, but unfortunately, the results where the same. So far, no matter what primer I use, or how many coats, or what topcoat I cover it with, the various paints all look white when first applied, but within a minute or so, they start to darken, and within 5 minutes they turn completely off-white. The final color so closely matches the existing trim, I can barely tell where I just painted. I've tried one coat, and I've tried two coats, of all the primers; shelac, oil base, and water based. I've tried topcoating with flat latex, semi-gloss and alkyd. The results are always the same, the paint always turns off-white along the windows and doors, while the trim along the floor is bright white, from the same cans of paint. I haven't tested an area with the aluminum paint yet, but will do so as soon as I can locate a source that sells it in sizes smaller than a gallon. I'm accumulating a fairly large collection of partially used paint cans!

A hardware store would probably sell aluminum paint in quarts. I have my doubts of it working but please keep us posted.

I would try this!!! Get a piece of trim that is new. Even a footlong piece of pre-primed. Apply two coats to the new wood and hold it right next to the trim you are having trouble. If there is a big difference, you need to change the trim. This wood has to be contaminated to no end. :eek: <p> You have applied every primer with no results. Come to think of it. Kiltz or Sherwin Williams Oil stain blocker has always done the trick for me.

Zinnser BIN is the best. If you have bleed-through after using it, give up and replace the trim. But try nagra's suggestion first by priming and painting a new piece of trim and placing it next to the existing trim. If there is little or no difference, then we know its an environment issue.