Basements, Attics and Crawl Spaces - Installing an attic / whole house fan

Hello All,

I need some advice.

We're in the process of installing a whole house / attic fan. The rationale was that we'd get a deal if we did the job in winter.

Well, the contractor we're thinking of demands to bring in his own fan -- this is a fan that is apparently made in Canada and he says that it's "the best fan in the market". This costs around $450 (I forget the name and brand unfortunately and will provide it here as soon as I get it from him). In addition, he is charging $800 for installation.

I objected to him supplying the fan saying that I've seen deals at Home Depot and Lowe's for comparable fans at much cheaper prices (winter rocks!) but he refuses to consider this saying that he isn't marking up the fan, that he only makes money on the installation.

The total project is "estimated" at $450 + $800 = $1250. He says that it's a 3 to a 4 hour job.

Is this a fair estimate? How much should I expect to pay for installation?

The fan I'm looking at comes with a 2-drive, belt driven, humidistat control and remote control (per him). It will be installed inside the attic and not on the roof.

Is $450 a reasonable cost for this fan?

I live in San Jose, CA (if location makes a difference).

Thank you.

-Sally

I'd get a couple other contractors to bid the job and compare.

If it is the fan I am thinking of, I have never done one, but they look like a really nice fan. Quiet, with insulated doors(important when the fan is not in use). The fans I see at big box are cheap, noisey, and not one I would want in my house. Take another look at his fan. And by the way, do you take your own tires, parts, oil to the dealer when you need service??

Could be a Tamarack HV1000 fan. Very nice, quiet, insulated and cost around $400-700.

Not a tamarack. Notice he said "belt driven".

Also, what about the insulation SillySally? Does it come with insulated covers? Do you have to go into the attic each time to put it on?

And to me, $800 seems like a lot . Is he running a wall switch? Or will you only use the remote? I mean, thats one less item of labor if no wall switch.

If he has to frame up a box, and trim rafters, etc etc, then maybe I can understand. And you DO live up in a high cost area.

Last thing, maybe someone can explain to me. A humidistat? what good does that do? Did you mean thermostat? I understand a humidistat on an A/C system, but on a whole house fan?

Best in 2008

If it is the fan I am thinking of, I have never done one, but they look like a really nice fan. Quiet, with insulated doors(important when the fan is not in use). The fans I see at big box are cheap, noisey, and not one I would want in my house. Take another look at his fan. And by the way, do you take your own tires, parts, oil to the dealer when you need service??

Well, other contractors are OK with me providing the fan, so what's the big deal if I want to provide the fan to save on costs?

Not a tamarack. Notice he said "belt driven".

Also, what about the insulation SillySally? Does it come with insulated covers? Do you have to go into the attic each time to put it on?

And to me, $800 seems like a lot . Is he running a wall switch? Or will you only use the remote? I mean, thats one less item of labor if no wall switch.

If he has to frame up a box, and trim rafters, etc etc, then maybe I can understand. And you DO live up in a high cost area.

Last thing, maybe someone can explain to me. A humidistat? what good does that do? Did you mean thermostat? I understand a humidistat on an A/C system, but on a whole house fan?

Best in 2008


I am completely technically challenged but this is what I got out of my discussion with him. He said the installation process would take a MAXIMUM of three hours. Can he do trimming / framing / wall switch in three hours? In addition, I don't think we'll need to go up the attic to switch the fan on every single time - he says the fan comes with a "remote control".

He's coming by soon and I can ask him to tell me exactly what he needs to do.
I did leave him a message asking for the make and name of fan but he hasn't called me back yet. I'll ask him about the insulation covers, too. He did say that this fan comes in too types -- larger and smaller -- and the smaller has about 1000 cfm. Since my house is super small (around 925 sq.ft), he said the 'smaller' fan would do.

Another dumb question -- I am of the impression that a whole house fan is NOT the same as an attic fan, after all (after talking to a neighbor this morning). Is an attic fan used to simply ventilate the attic to prevent it from getting too hot and located in the attic while a whole house fan is mounted on the ceiling below the attic in the living area?? If yes, would he need to touch the rafters at all if he's installing a whole house fan? I'm sorry, I really don't know much about construction and I could do with a lot of help/input from the pros at this time.

Could you share any more specific questions that I need to ask him prior to starting this work?

Thanks,

Sally.

An attic fan negatively pressurizes the attic in relation to the building exterior - air is drawn into the attic from every point it which it can enter. In almost all houses means some from hew exterior via attic vents and some from the interior of the the structure below via many small openings into the attic.

A "whole house fan" produces positive pressure in the attic relative to the building exterior - all the air leaving the attic (through vents etc) should be coming from the structure below.

In my climate (Chicago) we see a number of significant problems with “whole house” fans during our home inspections, most of which can be avoided if users are aware of them, for example see the last two pages here:

http://www.paragoninspects.com/attic-venting.pdf

$267 per hour? My attorney doesn't make that, and I doubt he can do the job in 3 hours unless he is retrofitting an existing unit. That is why we insist on at least 3 estimates on such jobs. It may be he is the most reasonable with the best fan, but you won't know unless you get the estimates.

My bet on the contractor wanting to use his fan is simply this:
If you find that the fan you supplied isn't to your liking, then where is he sitting? He's sitting on an upset customer that blames him for a poor installation, etc. I get customers that want us to install their product, and when we do, the number of times the job gets reworked in this situation is FAR higher than if we supply the material.

He's working with a product he trusts. Who's the expert here, him or you? He's got real work experience with this kind of thing, you're armed with some knowledge you've accumulated from the internet, and from people that have never stepped a foot in your home.

Granted, you have to be wary of getting ripped off and of course cannot be blamed for trying to get the best deal. I'm certainly not trying to castigate your for that. But, you get what you pay for, and you get out of the experience what you put into it. Get more estimates, get a better feel for the products offered. Don't make an impulse purchase on something that will be an important factor in your daily life.

My bet on the contractor wanting to use his fan is simply this:
If you find that the fan you supplied isn't to your liking, then where is he sitting? He's sitting on an upset customer that blames him for a poor installation, etc. I get customers that want us to install their product, and when we do, the number of times the job gets reworked in this situation is FAR higher than if we supply the material.

He's working with a product he trusts. Who's the expert here, him or you? He's got real work experience with this kind of thing, you're armed with some knowledge you've accumulated from the internet, and from people that have never stepped a foot in your home.

Granted, you have to be wary of getting ripped off and of course cannot be blamed for trying to get the best deal. I'm certainly not trying to castigate your for that. But, you get what you pay for, and you get out of the experience what you put into it. Get more estimates, get a better feel for the products offered. Don't make an impulse purchase on something that will be an important factor in your daily life.

So, just because I'm an expert, I don't have the right to know why he's doing what he's doing -- as in wanting to choose his own fan rather than working with the one I pick out? Hey, btw, if I WAS an expert, I wouldn't need to hire him in the first place, would I? I would just install it myself in a true DIY manner!

It doesn't matter if he's the expert and I'm not. The bottom line is that I am paying. As the person who forks the cash out, I have the right to know what I am being offered, why it is better than the alternatives available and what I can expect from the offerings. Don't think so? Then don't be in business!

I got a call today from another contractor who wants to be paid $75 JUST for coming over, taking a look at the project site and requirements so he could give me an estimate and got all mad when I told him I'd received other estimates for which I wasn't charged! He hung up on me with an angry "MERRY Christmas!" in a downright nasty tone. Well, gee, nice way to run your business.

Like every other industry, we probably have good contractors, bad contractors and downright rotten ones. I just have a hard time with people who think they don't have to communicate with their paying client / customer, because they are the expert and the customer is not.

SillySally,

I get the feeling that you are being rushed. Rushed and/or too many restructions shoved your way. Always remember there's really NO rush to get the system installed this week. Or, even this month. Pace yourself. And most importantly, "you" are the customer. You have the gold and as such, you make the rules. If contractors do NOT want to give you free estimates, tell them to "keep driving by". If a certain contractor doesn't give you a "Warm and Fuzzy" (if you know what I mean), tell them to "keep driving by". You are the customer and as such, you will hire the contrator who makes you feel most comfortable. Or, who is most reasonable priced. Like fishing in a large lake, throw some of them away. Take your time and enjoy the fishing adventure... Eventually, you will land the right catch - that is best for you.

And most of all, ensure you get a written contract with the contractor. Something that contains a schedule, supplies they must provided (like wiring, breakers, fasteners, conduits, etc. etc.) and their total "Estimated" dollar cost.

Hope this helps as well..

.

SillySally,

I get the feeling that you are being rushed. Rushed and/or too many restructions shoved your way. Always remember there's really NO rush to get the system installed this week. Or, even this month. Pace yourself. And most importantly, "you" are the customer. You have the gold and as such, you make the rules. If contractors do NOT want to give you free estimates, tell them to "keep driving by". If a certain contractor doesn't give you a "Warm and Fuzzy" (if you know what I mean), tell them to "keep driving by". You are the customer and as such, you will hire the contrator who makes you feel most comfortable. Or, who is most reasonable priced. Like fishing in a large lake, throw some of them away. Take your time and enjoy the fishing adventure... Eventually, you will land the right catch - that is best for you.

And most of all, ensure you get a written contract with the contractor. Something that contains a schedule, supplies they must provided (like wiring, breakers, fasteners, conduits, etc. etc.) and their total "Estimated" dollar cost.

Hope this helps as well..

.

Thank you, Spike. I will get a written contract.

Could you please tell me the tools that they would need to install a fan so I can make sure that I include them in the contract? Since it's still winter, I can afford to wait. I'm sure there's a contractor out there that is honest and fair (both to himself and to me). The guy that built this house moved away to Montana last year or I would have asked him to install the fan!

BTW, what are the chances that someone quotes a low estimate with the intention of jacking up the final tag? I'm sure that the majority of folks are honest, but there may be a rotten apple out there that decides to give me a lowball estimate with the intention of getting my business and then jacking up the cost. If this did happen, by how much should the final price be above the quoted estimate? How much would be too much?

Thanks,

-Sally

.

You may have bought your Attic Blower fan "as a kit". Just like a garage door opener system, it really isn't a "Plug and Play" install method. Electrical and controller wiring needs to be purchased/installed as well.

To install this attic mount Blower System, the following "may be" extra:
- Some 2x4s to create a solid mounting system. Might even use some 2x6s - depending on the unique design of your attic system.
- Some contractors like to use galvanized steel strapping or galvanized steel strips.
- Your blower system might include its matching thermostate. Hopefully, it did. If not, you'll need to buy it as well.
- Your Blower kit box may also include thermostate controller wiring. If not, or if the supplied wire is too short (to where you want to install its controller box), the contractor will also need to buy this special wire.
- Hopefully, your blower kit came with a roof vent. If not, this regional certified roof vent will need to be bought. And yes, do ensure the roof vent being used is "ok" for your specific region. Each region has their own building codes.
Hopefully, your blower kit came with long enough flex hose (from unit to roof vent). If not, this special flex hose will need to be bought as well.
- Electrical wire from Main Panel to your Blower Motor will need to be installed. The Controctor will probably want to install 12/2 wiring. Or if low 110/120V "amp" system, thinner 14/2 wire can be installed. Blower kits don't include this wire. Before buying any wire, open the Blower Kit install instructions and read of what Electrical Wire (outlet type, breaker type) must be used - for that model of Blower.
- The electrical wire at your main panel will need to be connected. If your main panel is a breaker system, use a AFCI breaker. This special AFCI breaker may need to be bought. In the attitc, a GFCI Outlet may need to be installed as well. These electrical parts don't come with the blower kit. Wire fasteners, outlet boxes, etc. etc. will need to be bought. Before deciding what breaker or outlet type to use (for your specific region), do consult with your local building code. And, double check with the electrical details within the Blow Kit Install Instructions. This is a must!!!

From a white board perspective, you are hiring a contractor for their install labour. But in many ways, you are also hiring their "customization design / engineering" knowledge as well. Thus, this job is more then a simple "wall stud install" type contractor. This job uses 3 different specialized trades. Electrical, Heating/Cooling and in a way, structure. Structure to ensure the blower system doesn't "over vibrate" - and losens other attic boards apart.

Due to Mandatory Install Materials that isn't included within your (or any contractor supplied) Attic Blower Kit System, other mandatory parts will need to be purchased as well. Do ensure your contractor itemizes these needed materials, and they are reasonably priced. Or, he/she buys them and shows you the receipt - and you pay for these items at end of the job. (I like this payment method the best).

Also... May I suggest you open your Blower Kit box and read its install instructions. Read really slow and try to visualize how someone (like you or a contractor) might install that specific unit inside your house. When you obtain written FREE estimates from 3+ contractors, you'll have a better idea if they are trying to BS you. Most don't BS their customers but unfortunately, there's some who try (and succeed).

Hope this helps as well...

.

.

You may have bought your Attic Blower fan "as a kit". Just like a garage door opener system, it really isn't a "Plug and Play" install method. Electrical and controller wiring needs to be purchased/installed as well.

To install this attic mount Blower System, the following "may be" extra:
- Some 2x4s to create a solid mounting system. Might even use some 2x6s - depending on the unique design of your attic system.
- Some contractors like to use galvanized steel strapping or galvanized steel strips.
- Your blower system might include its matching thermostate. Hopefully, it did. If not, you'll need to buy it as well.
- Your Blower kit box may also include thermostate controller wiring. If not, or if the supplied wire is too short (to where you want to install its controller box), the contractor will also need to buy this special wire.
- Hopefully, your blower kit came with a roof vent. If not, this regional certified roof vent will need to be bought. And yes, do ensure the roof vent being used is "ok" for your specific region. Each region has their own building codes.
Hopefully, your blower kit came with long enough flex hose (from unit to roof vent). If not, this special flex hose will need to be bought as well.
- Electrical wire from Main Panel to your Blower Motor will need to be installed. The Controctor will probably want to install 12/2 wiring. Or if low 110/120V "amp" system, thinner 14/2 wire can be installed. Blower kits don't include this wire. Before buying any wire, open the Blower Kit install instructions and read of what Electrical Wire (outlet type, breaker type) must be used - for that model of Blower.
- The electrical wire at your main panel will need to be connected. If your main panel is a breaker system, use a AFCI breaker. This special AFCI breaker may need to be bought. In the attitc, a GFCI Outlet may need to be installed as well. These electrical parts don't come with the blower kit. Wire fasteners, outlet boxes, etc. etc. will need to be bought. Before deciding what breaker or outlet type to use (for your specific region), do consult with your local building code. And, double check with the electrical details within the Blow Kit Install Instructions. This is a must!!!

From a white board perspective, you are hiring a contractor for their install labour. But in many ways, you are also hiring their "customization design / engineering" knowledge as well. Thus, this job is more then a simple "wall stud install" type contractor. This job uses 3 different specialized trades. Electrical, Heating/Cooling and in a way, structure. Structure to ensure the blower system doesn't "over vibrate" - and losens other attic boards apart.

Due to Mandatory Install Materials that isn't included within your (or any contractor supplied) Attic Blower Kit System, other mandatory parts will need to be purchased as well. Do ensure your contractor itemizes these needed materials, and they are reasonably priced. Or, he/she buys them and shows you the receipt - and you pay for these items at end of the job. (I like this payment method the best).

Also... May I suggest you open your Blower Kit box and read its install instructions. Read really slow and try to visualize how someone (like you or a contractor) might install that specific unit inside your house. When you obtain written FREE estimates from 3+ contractors, you'll have a better idea if they are trying to BS you. Most don't BS their customers but unfortunately, there's some who try (and succeed).

Hope this helps as well...

.


Stupid question -- what's a blower kit? I haven't purchased a fan yet!

Second stupid question -- what do you think of having an attic fan AND a whole house fan being installed?

Some background: This house was constructed in 2006, so it's BRAND NEW!! The builder told me that the house is up to the latest code and that everything is "up to date". Does this mean that attic ventilation should be good / high quality too? Are there codes that determine attic ventilation?

I was thinking of installing an attic fan initially but got side-tracked into considering a whole house fan. In your experience, which is the better pick?

Thanks again for your patience and time. I really appreciate it!

On that new a house you probably have sufficient soffit and ridge venting to move hot air in the summertime to keep the attic "temperate". If you plan on installing the whole house fan, I would probably forego the attic vents. Just another expense that may be redundant. Rather than trying to get an exact itemized list of materials the installer will use, have him/her include a phrase such as "providing all materials necessary to facilitate proper installation" or something to that nature. If you try to enumerate the materials, you will forget, leave out, or just not know what to include, and may be left holding the bag. Put the ball completely in the installer's court via your contract wording. I always include that phrase in my estimates. In fact it is a part of the pre-printed portion. As stated, it is winter, you won't need this monster until summer, so chill and get estimates from reputable, referred contractors. Nothing is better than word-of-mouth referrals. I don't advertise, period, and can't keep up, so I must have good referrals.:cool: You are the boss and can install whatever fan you want, but heed the advice of those who have trodden down the path before you. They may know more about the product than you. Then again, they may mark up the thing considerably, so do your research. Good luck with the project, and let us know how your estimates go. Remember NASA went with the low bidder on the Challenger "O" ring. Oh yeah, no need to insert the quote of our answer, we know what we said. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!

Silly Sally,

I would give this "contractor" the boot ASAP.

If you were redoing a kitchen would you hire a contractor who only installs cabinets that he chooses--of course not.

His price is totally out of range for the complexity of this job. Some other posters have made this sound like the install of a whole house fan rivals building a space shuttle.

Installing these couldn't be simpler. Just so you know what is involved, find the fan you want and go on the manufacturer's web site and download the install instructions. This way you have an idea what is involved.

Let NASA pay for the $600 hammers, $2000 toilet seats--you don't have to pay $1200+ for a whole house fan.

For online info, surf:
http://www.southface.org/web/resources&services/publications/factsheets/housefan.pdf
http://www.bobvila.com/Showrooms/WholeHouseFan/
http://www.homeenergy.org/archive/hem.dis.anl.gov/eehem/99/990511.html

Note: These above links are well worth reading.

----------------

As a suggestion, take your time, get lots of estimates and "how to for your exact home" feedback (from product supplies and "complete turn-key" contractors) and do "pace yourself". I can't emphasis this area enough.

If this is your "dream home" and you plan on living in your home for many years, then I'd probably get a whole house Vetilation system installed as well. Since your home was built in 2006, its attic ventiation system is already built to minimim "free flow" design already. Therefore, do not rush to get this system installed now. Take your learning / research time and pace yourself...

Happy reading....

On that new a house you probably have sufficient soffit and ridge venting to move hot air in the summertime to keep the attic "temperate". If you plan on installing the whole house fan, I would probably forego the attic vents. Just another expense that may be redundant. Rather than trying to get an exact itemized list of materials the installer will use, have him/her include a phrase such as "providing all materials necessary to facilitate proper installation" or something to that nature. If you try to enumerate the materials, you will forget, leave out, or just not know what to include, and may be left holding the bag. Put the ball completely in the installer's court via your contract wording. I always include that phrase in my estimates. In fact it is a part of the pre-printed portion. As stated, it is winter, you won't need this monster until summer, so chill and get estimates from reputable, referred contractors. Nothing is better than word-of-mouth referrals. I don't advertise, period, and can't keep up, so I must have good referrals.:cool: You are the boss and can install whatever fan you want, but heed the advice of those who have trodden down the path before you. They may know more about the product than you. Then again, they may mark up the thing considerably, so do your research. Good luck with the project, and let us know how your estimates go. Remember NASA went with the low bidder on the Challenger "O" ring. Oh yeah, no need to insert the quote of our answer, we know what we said. MERRY CHRISTMAS!!


LOL. :)

You know what you said, but quoting you in my responses ensures that I don't get posters confused and respond appropriately to each!

You're right about the low quote not always being the best idea, but this aien't no space shuttle :)

Merry Christmas to you and yours, too, Chandler :)

Silly Sally,

I would give this "contractor" the boot ASAP.

If you were redoing a kitchen would you hire a contractor who only installs cabinets that he chooses--of course not.

His price is totally out of range for the complexity of this job. Some other posters have made this sound like the install of a whole house fan rivals building a space shuttle.

Installing these couldn't be simpler. Just so you know what is involved, find the fan you want and go on the manufacturer's web site and download the install instructions. This way you have an idea what is involved.

Let NASA pay for the $600 hammers, $2000 toilet seats--you don't have to pay $1200+ for a whole house fan.

Thanks, sgtgerry. Spike shared some links with me and I mean to read them thoroughly. I am also on my way to Home Depot to talk to those folks -- one of their fans has been listed at a steep discount.

I emailed the contractor who built this house -- he retired in June, 2007 and moved to Montana to live with his son. He should send me some of his associates and references. This is a 75-yr-old man with over 50 years of construction experience. I really, really, really, really wish he was still around here. He'd do an awesome job at a fair price. I hope he emails me names and contact info of some of the people that worked on this house, including the guy that did the wiring. I am going to sit on this -- posting here made me realize that I'm ripe for a scam.

Secondly, this "contractor" called me this morning and jacked the price up by ANOTHER $100 -- he claims the fan is $500, not $400 as he originally stated on Thursday. I am sure it had NOTHING to do with the fact that I told him that the local energy company will give me a $100 rebate for installing a whole house fan rather than an air conditioner. I'm sure it's just a remarkable coincidence that I tell him about the rebate and his price goes up by the rebate amount.

Oh, well. You win some, you lose some.

You don't do any installations in this part of the country, Gerry?