Carpentry and Woodworking - nails and/or screws
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mlbauer
09-21-07, 10:56 AM
I could be in the wrong forum, but here goes. Where could i find a list of info about where to use nails/screws. whenever i go to look, i have NO idea what to ask for, and in mumbling, the clerks always look dismayed. ok..i'm not a carpenter. i am a crafter. my latest - i found some free old windows (casement or clerestory). i cleaned them up and painted them. I have shed doors that measure 4x6' and wanted to attached the old windows on the front of the doors. (attach - not cut out opening). windows are about 1 1/2" deep and doors 1/2"...whichever store i go to, i hear "you can't" or "just use wood screws", use sheetmetal screws with bolts. any help what to use and for future ideas, info on same...thanks ahead
Wirepuller38
09-21-07, 11:22 AM
Use screws with flat heads such as a sheet metal screw. A no. 8 screw 1 1/2 inches long would be fine. Drill a pilot hole for each screw through the door and about 1/2 inch into the window. Stay away from the glass part of the window. Make sure the pilot hole is small enough that the screw threads will hold in the wood of the window. Insert the screw through the door and into the window. This way the screw does not show on the outside of the window.
You should use screws rather than nails. You do not want to be banging on a window with a hammer and nails. Good luck with your project.
You should use screws rather than nails. You do not want to be banging on a window with a hammer and nails. Good luck with your project.
the_tow_guy
09-21-07, 04:06 PM
Also, repeated opening & closing of the door would eventually cause the nails to pull out.
MissTFried
09-21-07, 05:03 PM
My advice is to always use screws whenever possible.
You can always dismantle your work more easily if necessary
and a drill with a phillips head bit makes the process of assembly much easier than nailing. I find it is always easier to drill a pilot hole before inserting the screw. Just be sure use a bit slightly smaller than the screw
To me, he head of the screw is more important than the screw shaft. I almost always use a phillips head screw regardless of what i am doing.
The next most important feature of the screw is the shape of the head. And that choice is always dependant on what I am screwing together.
Pan head screws generally flit flush against the surface leaving the head exposed ( I find that I almost always use this when securing a metal object ( like a window to another object (wood or metal)
Flat head screws generally countersink into the surface and eirhter sit flush with the surface or just below it. (a typlical deck or drywall screw is a great example) Actually this is my most oftern used screw, I keep 1", 1 1/4", 2" , 2 1/2, 3", and 3 1/2" handy all the time.
Oval head screws generally counterink like the flat head screw but have an oval shape top, This is more of a specialty screw again more oftern used for securing metal object that have a pre-countersink (or is that sunk)
My advice is to stay away from a straight slot screw.
Hope this helps
You can always dismantle your work more easily if necessary
and a drill with a phillips head bit makes the process of assembly much easier than nailing. I find it is always easier to drill a pilot hole before inserting the screw. Just be sure use a bit slightly smaller than the screw
To me, he head of the screw is more important than the screw shaft. I almost always use a phillips head screw regardless of what i am doing.
The next most important feature of the screw is the shape of the head. And that choice is always dependant on what I am screwing together.
Pan head screws generally flit flush against the surface leaving the head exposed ( I find that I almost always use this when securing a metal object ( like a window to another object (wood or metal)
Flat head screws generally countersink into the surface and eirhter sit flush with the surface or just below it. (a typlical deck or drywall screw is a great example) Actually this is my most oftern used screw, I keep 1", 1 1/4", 2" , 2 1/2, 3", and 3 1/2" handy all the time.
Oval head screws generally counterink like the flat head screw but have an oval shape top, This is more of a specialty screw again more oftern used for securing metal object that have a pre-countersink (or is that sunk)
My advice is to stay away from a straight slot screw.
Hope this helps
chandler
09-21-07, 08:05 PM
Screws have their place, but not in framing. They do not have the shear strength of nails. Their holding power is superior to nails, I agree, but be careful where you use them. And torx head screws are 1000 times more reliable than phillips. Just thought I'd throw it in for what it's worth.
brewcityc
09-22-07, 03:08 AM
Considering the fact that you're not framing, you're just mounting the windows on the door faces for looks, I agree with MissTFried. Shear strength is pretty much irrelevant here. Nails can come loose with vibration/movement and if exposed to the elements. Pounding them in could damage the glass.
One tip, before drilling your pilot holes, set the depth of your drill bit. You can do this by setting it into the chuck at the exact length or, mearsure the length you want from the tip back and wrap with electrical tape to mark your cut-off.
One tip, before drilling your pilot holes, set the depth of your drill bit. You can do this by setting it into the chuck at the exact length or, mearsure the length you want from the tip back and wrap with electrical tape to mark your cut-off.
chandler
09-22-07, 05:01 AM
The comment regarding shear strength was made as a general observation. Obviously shear strength is not an issue in this application. Just don't put all your money in screws for all jobs.
brewcityc
09-23-07, 12:06 AM
Agreed. I know what you meant. You were explaining the general pros and cons of screws VS nails. I was just clarifying for mlbauer what was the best for this case.
MissTFried
09-23-07, 07:03 AM
I can't believe I'm defending what I said but here goes.
I even had to re-read my previous post to see if I mis-spoke.
I didn't. The question was about screws vs nails in an application that involved instaling windows.
"mlbauer" was appearantly unable to get a satisfactory answer relative to installing windows from the local clerk.
(PS perhaps some departmental training is in order for the store)
"mlbauer" is also an admitted "crafter" not a carpenter. While I agree that "torx head screws are 1000 times more reliable than phillips", I doubt that many DIYer even know what a "torx head " screw looks like and then further where they would find an adequate supply of sizes to meet their needs.
And nor are they likely to want to purchase a tool, that they may never use again.
But I'll bet that virtually every DIYer on the planet knows what a plillips head screw look like and probably has a phillips head screw driver, and has access to a wide variety of shapes and sizes.
FTR, if the question had been about framing, then I would have recommended using nails.
I even had to re-read my previous post to see if I mis-spoke.
I didn't. The question was about screws vs nails in an application that involved instaling windows.
"mlbauer" was appearantly unable to get a satisfactory answer relative to installing windows from the local clerk.
(PS perhaps some departmental training is in order for the store)
"mlbauer" is also an admitted "crafter" not a carpenter. While I agree that "torx head screws are 1000 times more reliable than phillips", I doubt that many DIYer even know what a "torx head " screw looks like and then further where they would find an adequate supply of sizes to meet their needs.
And nor are they likely to want to purchase a tool, that they may never use again.
But I'll bet that virtually every DIYer on the planet knows what a plillips head screw look like and probably has a phillips head screw driver, and has access to a wide variety of shapes and sizes.
FTR, if the question had been about framing, then I would have recommended using nails.
michaelshortt
09-23-07, 08:55 AM
MissTFried, I thought your advice for the situation was rigft on and was amazed at how well it was written.
MissTFried
09-23-07, 09:07 AM
Thanx Mike, I feel redeemed
chandler
09-23-07, 07:20 PM
No redemption was necessary. Your post was right on target with the exception of "whenever possible". I simply wanted to clarify the different uses of nails versus screws in a general manner, for fear someone not as much in the know would consider screws right for all purposes, which they aren't. The OP is not the only person reading these answers. Be cool and keep the good comments coming.