Bricks, Masonry, Asphalt and Concrete - lentel installation in brick

This weekend, I'll be installing a 6' sliding patio door where there is currently a small window in our dining room.
The inside of the wall has been framed up with new header/king and jack studs.
What remains is installing a lentel and cutting out the bricks.
I've asked countless tradesmen the steps in installing the lentel without having the brick wall come crashing down in the process, and no two answered the same.
One suggested just running the saw along the whole mortar line and simply hammering in the lentel, saying that the bricks will support themselves for the short time that the mortar line is cut out.
Another suggested cutting a couple of feet at a time and hammer in wood wedges from the outside to support the bricks above, then when tapping in the lentel from inside the wedges will be pushed out.

Question; What is the method the pros use to install a lentel in a brick wall?
Also, is an 8' lentel good, or is that over doing it?

Regards

not a brick mason but I do work around a lot of construction.

How many courses of brick will be left above the door?

Not sure but you may have gotten ahead of yourself with having the header and all installed before installing the lentil, if you actually want to install the lentil without removing the bricks. How do you propose installing it when it not only will be under the brick but also behind the brick? Will the header not be in the way?

It sounds like you are getting ahead of yourself and too late -

What kind of wall construction? I am assuming wood frame with a brick veneer. How much brick are you trying to support? - 12" or 2 stories?

How long do you want the brick to stand?

I would suggest getting a qualified masonry contractor to finish the job so you can concentrate on the real DIY part of the job.

Dick

Yeah, I guess all the details are helpful huh..

The house is two story wood frame with brick veneer.
Sliding doors cutout will be on main floor.
Inside framing can be removed again to install the lintel as the temp support is still in place.

Concretemasonry;
This being a DIY site is why I am posting this here and asking the questions.
Your advice is noted.

Note mine as well: This is not a DIY type job.

Considering tackeling a similiar task with slump block. Anyone know this one?

I'd forgotten about this thread.

Follow up:
The brick was cut out and 8' lentil installed.
Thankfully I thought to seal off this room from the rest of the house before starting up the saw, because the brick dust was something to experience!

Sliders went in without a hitch. Two days labour (not including the inside wall finishing) and the job looked great. 8 months later and still no sign of cracks in brick above cutout.

This is indeed a DIY job...depending on your skill level.

Regards

I'd forgotten about this thread.

Follow up:
The brick was cut out and 8' lentil installed.
Thankfully I thought to seal off this room from the rest of the house before starting up the saw, because the brick dust was something to experience!

Sliders went in without a hitch. Two days labour (not including the inside wall finishing) and the job looked great. 8 months later and still no sign of cracks in brick above cutout.

This is indeed a DIY job...depending on your skill level.

Regards

Ok, great! Glad it went well. Will be ready myself to install a 6' french door. Have a few questions about the lintel install:

Which procedure did you use to install the lintel?

Where did you purhcase your lintel?

I have seen lintels in remodel houses that looked like 6" by 1/4" inch steel lintels in varying lengths. I would think you could just go down to the metal yard and pick up some cold rolled strips?

Having help on hand will make things easier as you can take turns on the saw.

After gutting the inside plaster wall, the ceiling was supported by a 2x6 running the full width of the ceiling and one on the floor. 2x4s were wedged in place between these at every ceiling joist corresponding to each wall stud that was to be removed.
The wall studs were then removed.

Using a rented saw, the mortar line was cut out where the lentil was to be installed. Then the vertical lines were cut.
The lentil was gently tapped into place (it's amazing how much a brick wall will flex).
Then we began removing the bricks.
"Go slow" is the key word for this process.
We did have a few bricks come loose above the lentil that later had to be mortared back in place while we filled in the lentil. I also added a shallow bed of mortar along the vertical cuts to make the bricks look finished.
That was all there was to it.

The inside wall was finished as described in a post above.

Bought the lentil at one of the big box stores.
Figure that it's a one time expense, so why take a chance on a substitution.


Regards

Sorry to come late to this discussion. The biggest problems I see in such projects when done by homeowners or non-masonry contractors are a failure to properly flash above the shelf angle and/or to provide weeps to allow moisture to exit the wall above the lintel.

The lintel needs to be flashed, house wrap needs to go over the lintel's flashing, and there must be a properly designed and installed method of water exit about the lintel - otherwise within just a few years the lintel will start to rust, and eventually you will often see oxide jacking upwards at the corners the window.

Other common problems including insufficient bearing of the shelf angle (you need 4 inches) and running mortar tight up against the ends of the angle (you need room for expansion).

For general information, see the BIA technote at:

http://www.advancedflashing.com/clientsuppliedcontent-forms/BIATechNoteTextPDFs/Tech%20Note%2028.pdf

Having help on hand will make things easier as you can take turns on the saw.

After gutting the inside plaster wall, the ceiling was supported by a 2x6 running the full width of the ceiling and one on the floor. 2x4s were wedged in place between these at every ceiling joist corresponding to each wall stud that was to be removed.
The wall studs were then removed.

Using a rented saw, the mortar line was cut out where the lentil was to be installed. Then the vertical lines were cut.
The lentil was gently tapped into place (it's amazing how much a brick wall will flex).
Then we began removing the bricks.
"Go slow" is the key word for this process.
We did have a few bricks come loose above the lentil that later had to be mortared back in place while we filled in the lentil. I also added a shallow bed of mortar along the vertical cuts to make the bricks look finished.
That was all there was to it.

The inside wall was finished as described in a post above.

Bought the lentil at one of the big box stores.
Figure that it's a one time expense, so why take a chance on a substitution.


Regards

Excellent. big box store? ...you mean home depot, lowes?

Could you elaborate on the vertical lines that where cut? How high, etc.

Was the lentel installed from the outside of the house?

It is not a DIY job, sorry. You did not flash it, and if you bought the lintel at a big box store it can not possibly be large enough for a 6' span. 3x4x1/4 would be minimum, 4x4x1/4 preferred, primed in either case.

Brick walls are not flexible, so any flexing you saw may cause problems down the road.

I am glad it worked for you, and hope it doesn't bite you or the next owner.

It is not a DIY job, sorry. You did not flash it, and if you bought the lintel at a big box store it can not possibly be large enough for a 6' span. 3x4x1/4 would be minimum, 4x4x1/4 preferred, primed in either case.

Brick walls are not flexible, so any flexing you saw may cause problems down the road.

I am glad it worked for you, and hope it doesn't bite you or the next owner.


I bet it is. I am sure a lot of prep/knowhow is required.

Anybody else have experience with lentil in brick?

Lentil:

http://pws.prserv.net/jpinet.orii0/images/ingredients_lentil_m.jpg

Lintel:

http://www.straight-line.biz/Images/lintel.gif

Lintel (thanks MT) was bought at Home Depot.
4" x 4" x 1/4" x 8' (8' might be overkill, but better over than under)and was indeed primed.
The flexing was in the part of the wall that had been cut vertically and was to be removed.
Vertical lines were cut from the horizontal cut for the lintel to the inside floor level. Then another row of bricks were removed below inside floor level to allow installation of the stoop.
Opinions vary Oregonranch, so get many on your project. Check with your local buiding permit department as well. I did, and ours had no issues with my method.
Only YOU know your capabilities.

Lintel (thanks MT) was bought at Home Depot.
4" x 4" x 1/4" x 8' (8' might be overkill, but better over than under)and was indeed primed.
The flexing was in the part of the wall that had been cut vertically and was to be removed.
Vertical lines were cut from the horizontal cut for the lintel to the inside floor level. Then another row of bricks were removed below inside floor level to allow installation of the stoop.
Opinions vary Oregonranch, so get many on your project. Check with your local buiding permit department as well. I did, and ours had no issues with my method.
Only YOU know your capabilities.

Did you take pics? I would love to see some.

Im referencing:

Residential Construction Academy: Masonry, Brick and Block Construction by Robert Ham.

Are there any other books that might be as beneficial?

Yes, I took a lot of pictures from start to finish.
Unfortunately my hard drive died and I lost all of them. Had a bunch of the deck project last fall as well but they too are gone...
Though my computer guru says they are forever lost, I have found another source who thinks he can retreive them. If he does, I'd be glad to post them for you.

You are exactly right about only you knowing your capabilities. That is why it is hard or even dangerous to discuss projects like your own. Someone less capable, but confident, could do damage to themselves and the structure by following brief opinions on a bulletin board.

At any rate, I am glad you were able to get it done. S!

You are exactly right about only you knowing your capabilities. That is why it is hard or even dangerous to discuss projects like your own. Someone less capable, but confident, could do damage to themselves and the structure by following brief opinions on a bulletin board.

At any rate, I am glad you were able to get it done. S!

So true. For me, this mssg. board will give me a starting point for research on a lintel install. I plan to resource many more documents, etc. before I begin.

Universities heavy in engineering seem to be another good reference point.

The downside to this project is that not many books cover remodeling.