Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Clad 4x4 PT posts with cedar?

I'm building a deck soon (floating, less than 2' off the ground), with a pergola overtop of part of it, and I a considering using 4x4 PT posts (for the ones that end under the decking, as well as the 4 tall ones that will also form the corners of the pergola) and cladding/covering the corner 4x4s in cedar, to match the cedar decking that I have already bought (there was a great sale on it). I'm in Southern Ontario (weather roughly equal to Michigan's and New York state's) and I will be cementing the posts into the ground, on top of either tamped gravel or cement footings. I want to avoid having to buy 16' 6x6 cedar posts, and I don't want to stick cedar posts in the ground.

My question is, has anyone seen this done (cladding PT with cedar on posts)? Is it a good idea? If I don't do this, I will have a cedar deck (decking + skirting and steps in cedar) and a PT pergola, which I think might look really awful.

Any and all advice would be appreciated.

...Steve

With the low height you anticipate, the 4x4's will give adequate support, but not sunk into the ground. You need to determine your frost line, and pour adequate footings and attach the posts on top of the concrete piers. Now, as far as cladding the posts with cedar, are you talking about shakes or cedar 1x8's? Cedar 1x8's will look fine, at least for the short term. They will shrink and swell with the weather, and crack. Shakes, will take the patience of Job to do as the angle cuts on each shake is precise, and has to be matched on each side.

I'm with Larry. DO NOT ember wood posts in concrete.

You can pour the footings below the frost line and put post or column bases at the top of the footings to attach the wood posts to, or, since you are going to clad them, embed steel posts in the concrete. Given that the deck and cover are both freestanding, I would opt for using the embedded steel posts to support the cover. They are much stronger, and will provide for wind load support.

Build the cover first, then install the deck.

I actually much prefer to sink pressure treated posts in the ground for overhead structures.

Unless you are going to be connecting this structure to the house, metal connectors at the base have almost 0 lateral support and you will need to brace the structure.

We wrap the posts all of the time with whatever deck material we are using. If you do a good job, it will look great. We prefer not to mitre the corners, as eventual expansion and contraction will open the corners up. We like to put 1x4's on opposite sides and then 1x6's on the other 2 sides.

dooer,

You misunderstood what I said. I didn't suggest embedding a post base or column base in the footing -- I said "embed steel posts".

I do this all the time for freestanding patio covers. The footings are 24" deep, plus whatever frost issue may be involved. Then, 12' tall 3" steel posts are embedded in the footing. Once the footings have set, you simply cut the posts off to the height needed. Those posts then carry the beam.

No lateral support? Try to bend a 14 guage fluted steel post that's embedded in an 18" square by 24" deep concrete footing.

Lefty, I don't think that I misunderstood this quote.

"I'm with Larry. DO NOT ember wood posts in concrete."

I actually wasn't singling you out, but I think it was Chandler that suggested metal brackets.

I don't have a problem with steel posts, other then the expense of the material, cutting the column and welding a bracket on top. If you can do those things yourself (I can't), it is probably worth it.

I really like the 2' deep footings though. We generally have to go 5' deep with 6x6 PT posts on permited jobs. Luckily I don't usually have to dig those footings.

Structures taller than the OP's would surely be better off with embedded steel posts. But lateral support probably won't be a problem 2' off the ground, and not free standing, as the OP described. That is why I suggested the metal bases. In addition the ones we use are bolted to the footing, so it does give some lateral support and should work for the OP.

The deck is 2' off the ground. I'm assuming, perhaps incorrectly, that the pergola is much higher then that. Also, with 4 posts, I'm assuming that it is free standing.

Now it is possible that he can get the lateral support he needs by framing the deck around the pergola posts and securly attaching the 2 structures together.

Mark

Hey guys,

FORGET THE DECK.

Build the pergola first, and make that work. You don't want to be embedding wood posts in concrete to support it, and you don't want embedded post or column bases. You want an embedded steel post.

Build the pergola and make it stand on it's own. THEN add the deck. You can't be relying on the deck to add any lateral strength to support the pergola.

I'm the OP, and where I live (Southwestern Ontario, Canada) everyone (amateurs and the people hired to do them) seems to just sink deck and fence posts into the ground, pour some cement and cover with dirt. I'm at least pouring a footing underneath to spread the downward load (or am I wasting my time doing that?).

Regarding lateral loading (wind shear), should I really be concerned? Won't the wind pretty much just go right through it?

Concerned and confused,

...Steve

Sink the PT posts in concrete and clad them with cedar.

Yes some of the wind will pass through, but not all of it.

Pergola can mean a lot of things, can you post a drawing or explain how the upper structure is going to be built.

If you rely on post anchors, you will have a hard time building it, because the posts will move so much. If you check the hardware catalog, it will specifically mention that they are not for unreinforced structures. This means tieing into a building or some sort of lateral bracing.

The plan (I think I've abandoned the 4x4 PT covered with cedar idea):

- sink 12" holes 4' into the ground
- pour concrete footings in the bottom (6")
- set 6x6 PT posts on top, fill a good portion of the hole around the post with concrete
- all but 4 of the PT posts end under the decking (which is just under 2' above grade). The 4 pergola corners end about 10' above grade (about 8' above the deck)
- pergola top has beams (2) topped with 2x6 or 2x8 'joists' (but they carry no load, and are mostly decorative) and then either strapping or lattice over that.

I finally staked the places for the holes and posts this afternoon, using 3-4-5 triangles from the house. Hard work, but the end result looks good and checks out (diagonals work, imaginary beam lines are perfectly parallel, and seem to be perfectly perpendicular to the house).

...Steve