Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - Wood Floor Advice

So many questions, such a slow typist!

I am looking at wood floor products for the upstairs of a traditional adobe, about 1200 sq ft, in an arid climate. The house sits at 7,000 feet, and when it rains it pours; but then drops back down to 15% maximum. The 'dobe was built in the '70s and has undergone substantial settling resulting in badly patched walls, and since the floor is carpeted I can't gauge for level until it comes up. The area is 4 bedrooms with closets, a LARGE landing and a two room bath with sagging, bouncy floor near the plumbing. I have laid, finished and refinished a traditional hardwood before, but wanted to be open minded to new products.

The floated floors "sound" wrong to me, so I threw them right out. I "clacked" in rubber soled shoes. I don't need to mention cost is a factor, there is another 3000 sq ft of badly maintained house to care for. I was impressed with the rigidity and finish of the "engineered" hardwood laminates but had several questions I wanted to tag an expert on before I started forking over my hard earneds. The products I am looking at are hardwood plywood with a 3mm hardwood surface (didn't we used to call this a veneer?) they call a "wear" layer good for 3 sandings. Hah.

1. I'll be working over a wooden subfloor, I understand these products can be nailed (sorry - stapled) with a tarpaper underlay? For squeaks, right?

2. The aluminum oxide finishes are guaranteed beyond my lifetime, but does anyone know how to repair it? Can it be sanded and matched for damage? Accidents? I got a feeling poly isn't going to match, do they sell an ALOX kit?

3. Some of the floor samples I examined had hairline cracking, not only at the ends (which could be mishandling) but in the running surface of the "plank." Too small to actually catch a nail in, but probably big enough to snag a sock. I got three explanations in three stores, ranging from lack of humidity to crappy Chinese production, to stay away from the really porous tropical woods, much like the Philippine mahogany furniture we used to bring home - it can crack horribly if not dry when used and then humidity controlled during transport. Lumber Liquidator said he had no idea what I was talking about, never seen it.

4. All of the vendors showrooms I hit spent a lot of time telling me about the warranty on the aluminum oxide finish, but only when pressed would they admit there was NO warranty on the underlying wood product, either for the hairline cracking I saw, or for manufacturing defect - like they glued it together with Elmer's. One vendor said they handle it on a case by case and the manufacturer's rep would have to inspect the defects. There are darned few reps in New Mexico.

5. There is one outfit on the web selling genuine 3/4 inch hardwood plank at a lovely price, but not jointed for tongue and groove. What the heck do you do with it other than glue it to concrete?

Any illumination on these products would be most helpful. Feel free to be unvarnished and opinionated.

Thanks,

Emmett

Look for an engineered product that can be glued to the concrete, using a moisture cure urethane adhesive. The concrete needs to be checked for high moisture vapor emissions(vapors can't be seen)

No solid over concrete!!! and solids don'y like swings in humidity. Expect cracking gapping and checking in a dry arid climate, without humidifiers.

1. I'll be working over a wooden subfloor,

Sorry, I had you post confused with someone over concrete and they were putting down a plywood subfloor over the concrete.


1. I'll be working over a wooden subfloor, I understand these products can be nailed (sorry - stapled) with a tarpaper underlay? For squeaks, right?


****Not all engineered can be stapled. A lot are gluedown only. Some with the rotating lock T&G are floating only. Some you can staple, glue or float. Check with the manufacturer of the engineered board, to see what you can do with it.





2. The aluminum oxide finishes are guaranteed beyond my lifetime, but does anyone know how to repair it? Can it be sanded and matched for damage? Accidents? I got a feeling poly isn't going to match, do they sell an ALOX kit?


*** It is rare that you can sand and exactly match any repair. Wood patina's, and stains are mixed in batches. Their is currently no AO finish that I know of to spot finish prefinished floors.





3. Some of the floor samples I examined had hairline cracking, not only at the ends (which could be mishandling) but in the running surface of the "plank." Too small to actually catch a nail in, but probably big enough to snag a sock. I got three explanations in three stores, ranging from lack of humidity to crappy Chinese production, to stay away from the really porous tropical woods, much like the Philippine mahogany furniture we used to bring home - it can crack horribly if not dry when used and then humidity controlled during transport. Lumber Liquidator said he had no idea what I was talking about, never seen it.


***Lumber Liquidators are idiots, plain and simple. If they actually knew what they were talking about, and educated the customers, they would sell 1/2 the flooring they do now. You know more then the LL guy!!!! Cracking & Checking, can be caused in the harvest, the kiln, and in the humidity after it is milled.LL Bella and Durawood, are know to have these defects. Why do you think they are so cheap, besides the poor kiln drying, and milling. Instead of the industry standard of 5% over order, for culling and waste, you better order 20-30% overage for culling!!





4. All of the vendors showrooms I hit spent a lot of time telling me about the warranty on the aluminum oxide finish, but only when pressed would they admit there was NO warranty on the underlying wood product, either for the hairline cracking I saw, or for manufacturing defect - like they glued it together with Elmer's. One vendor said they handle it on a case by case and the manufacturer's rep would have to inspect the defects. There are darned few reps in New Mexico.



***The warranties are a marketing and sales tool, to the unsuspecting and the ones that don't understand fine print. It does not warranty against scratching, which with AO can leave a whitish character mark. Not much can happen to the wood itself, after the first year of seasonal humidity changes. You will see the defects of the boards in the first year. Cracking, and Checking. The warranty says you will not wear through the finish, with normal foot traffic. The floor will be scratched and uglied out, way before that, and need a recoat. You don't have to sand all the way to bare wood. Like repainting a car, scuff the surface to give it a tooth, and recoat with finish.




5. There is one outfit on the web selling genuine 3/4 inch hardwood plank at a lovely price, but not jointed for tongue and groove. What the heck do you do with it other than glue it to concrete?


***Ah, there is where I read concrete!!!!

You can set up your router table and cut some spline, or you can top nail and fill or screw and plug(especially if it is plank flooring)

Forgot to say, Board replacement, is the alternative, when you have a misfortunate repair. Keep extra wood in a humidified place(I now see your in dry arid Arizona)



Expect cracking & checking, shrinking and gapping, in Arizona, unless you run humidifiers and swamp coolers, running constantly!!!!!!!!!!!

Sorry for busting your chops Sunday!

Now that we have nailed down the "engineered" products, can I get you to survey real board for my install?

Am I going to run into the same humidity issues? Swamp coolers are a delight, but I don't want to base an investment like this on the promise to keep one running. About how humid do wood products want to be?

And I have done the lay and sand process, the biggest issue as a weekend warrior is getting proper tools on rental. How are the prefinished products?

At or below, 30% rH is going to cause checking, cracking. Wood likes to be between 35-55% rH