Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - wall tiling question

I am planning to place porcelain wall tiles in my tub/shower surround. I have a question about this. How big a gap do I leave between the bottom row of tiles and the tub? And how do I seal this, with caulk?

Leave about 1/8" joint. Yes caulk it.

Thats the only question you have. You know that you have to use cement board, not greenboard or regular drywall right. You know you need a moisture barrier behind the cement board right. You know you need to use thinset, not mastic and not premixed thinset right. Just trying to be helpful. If you have other questions, ask away. Good luck.

thanks for the tip. Yes, I did know about most of what you mentioned. I used Durabond cement board and I will use thin set, not mastic. The thin set I intend to you is FlexBond (from home depot). What I didn't know was to put a moisture barrier behind the cement board. I put the cement board directly on the wall studs with no moisture barrier. Is this going to be a problem? Thanks.

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Actually, I do have another question. I just finished placing tiles on the floor of this bathroom (with your advice, came out nice) using 3/16" spacing. do I need to replicate this with the wall tiles or can I go weith 1/8" spacing which I think might look nicer?

1) At this point, short of starting over, I'd use a waterproofing membrane to correct this. Red Gard is an excellent one. Most folks are not aware that concrete board is not waterproof and will wick moisture. A waterproofing membrane will stop it.

2) You are limited only by your imagination. If this looks good to you, go for it. Personally, I like to come up with different patterns on the walls to sort of break up the monotony. Putting in corner caddies, soap dishes, and the like also makes the shower more user friendly.

I have another question about my wall tiling project. I do plan to install soem soad dishes. Teh soad dishes that I purchased have a protrusion at the back. My question is when do the dishes get installed vis a vis the tiles? Is the following sequence of steps correct.
1. mark the spots on the cement board where the dishes will be placed.
2. install the tiles, cutting them so that the dish spaces are left bare (no tile, no thin set).
3. install the dishes in the pre-determined spaces using thin set.
4. Grout everything, except the dishes
5. Caulk the gaps betwen the dishes and the tiles.

I think you got it.

Here's another question. How do you join inside corner tiles? Do you join the edges of each tile together or do you run one tile closer to the opposite wall and join the edge of the other tile to the face of the first tile? Thanks in advance.
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I don't know how other installers do it, but I tile the back wall first and then the side walls so the side wall tile butts into the back wall tile. This method serves to hide any minor differences in cuts at the corner on the back wall tile and gives a nice clean look. You'll be running a bead of color match caulk to finish it out.

im a contractor that does a lot of tile work,everytime i do a tub and shower surround ive always used thinset,recently i was working for a company that only used mastic,the tilesetter i was working for was a master tile setter,and his workmanship was some of the finest ive ever seen,so i didnt question him...what do you guys think?...and also,is there a application where mortar is the only way to go,as opposed to mastic or thinset?i learned the trade from a few old timers that were set in their ways,and didnt believe in change...thanks chris

One of the soap dishes that I will be installing is an old fashioned one with the wash cloth bar. Do you know how far from teh tub floor this dish is typically set? I realize that it is a question of taste but I wonder what is typical> Thanks.

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sawman - I don't like mastic in wet areas such as tubs or showers, but it works for walls that will typically stay dry. It isn't, however, suitable for floors. I've seen lots of it, that was done that way, come loose. No installer has much sway over the laws of physics and there are some things that need to be done, some that should be done, and some that should never be done. I use thinset for every thing, but that's because I have it and it works in pretty much every circumstance. It works great on walls, but then, so does wall mastic. I just prefer to stock only one product. The only thing I use mortar for is the pre-installation structural stuff, such as a pan and dam.

yea i knew i was kinda doing it right,i use thinset for everything also...just kinda threw me for a loop that the tile guy i was working for used mastic on a shower surround...another thing,i always put a vapor barrier behind my backer board when doing my surrounds,and use as small a grout lines as i can get away with..not only do i think it looks nicer in a shower,it also is better for water resistance,in my opinion...is a vapor barrier always needed in that situation?...thanks again....you guys are great........................sawman - I don't like mastic in wet areas such as tubs or showers, but it works for walls that will typically stay dry. It isn't, however, suitable for floors. I've seen lots of it, that was done that way, come loose. No installer has much sway over the laws of physics and there are some things that need to be done, some that should be done, and some that should never be done. I use thinset for every thing, but that's because I have it and it works in pretty much every circumstance. It works great on walls, but then, so does wall mastic. I just prefer to stock only one product. The only thing I use mortar for is the pre-installation structural stuff, such as a pan and dam.

I just finished tiling shower walls using premixed thinset. After getting some advice here I decided to do some unscientific testing of the adhesive.

I stuck together two pieces of tile and let it dry for 3-4 days. I then threw them in a bucket of water. Within a couple of hours the adhesive had softened. By the next morning I could easily pull the tiles apart.

I also tiled a 2X2 piece of cement board and allowed it to set up for a couple of days. No grout was used. I sprayed this board with a hose twice a day every day for a week. The tiles did not loosen.

I've used pre mixed thinset for 3 floors (including one bath), a kitchen countertop and two vanity tops. I did not have any tiles fail after years of use. I removed the countertop and floor tiles in the kitchen during a reno. It was easier to pull up the underlayment than to try to get the tiles off. Premixed may not be good for wet applications, but IMO it is a good adhesive elsewhere. I would not hesitate to use it again in any of those applications. I probably wouldn't use it again for shower walls.

The only time you dont need a vapor barrier is when you are using a water proofing system directly under the tile like redgard or kerdi or some other waterproofing system. Other than that, you need a vapor barrier. Grout as we all know is not waterproof. While its performance is unaffected by water, it will still allow water to pass through to the cement board. Sealers will slow that process down, but dont stop it from happening. We arent talking a lot of moisture here, but its enough to promote mold growth and rot out the framing over time. A properly installed vapor barrier will prevent this from happening.

As to the premixed thinset, theres no need to take the chance of using this stuff ever. Besides not being suitable for wet areas, it shouldnt be used on floors or on large format tiles on walls in dry areas either. Its probably ok for a backsplash with smaller tiles. The premixed stuff takes forever to dry under large tiles where it doesnt get air. Thinset is cheaper, easy to work with and will stand the test of time. Its performance is unaffected by moisture.

Trymybest

Just noticed everybody got hung up on nonsense and nobody answered your question. I usually install those soap dishes in the first or second full row of tile depending on the size of the tile. I never think of it as how high off the tub floor. I think of it as how high off the top of the tub. Sit in the tub and see whats confortable for you.

Johnny - Nonsense? NONsense?! I'm crushed. But, you're right, we did sort of start chasing rabbits there.

Hey Smokey - nonsense was a bad choice of words I guess. I should have said that we hijacked his thread and got off the subject and didnt answer his questions. My apologies.

Hi all,

Thanks for getting around to answering my question. It turns out my wife changed her mind on that particular soap dish (after I convinced her :-]) and we will be installing 3 corner dishes. I've tiled halfway up the wall---so far, so good!! Thanks.

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