Lawns - fertilizer/timing question

Tall fescue lawn, from sod, three years old. Lawn is basically thriving, but some areas of lighter green, lagging growth areas. I follow the Scott's program, sort of, so winterizer in the late fall, then used LIQUID turfbuilder + weed control in the spring. Also laid down Grubx (or something like that) to control insects in early spring. Applied another round of weed and feed in late spring (about 2 weeks ago) to kill the remaining weeds.

My question is, because my grass is cool season and it is going dormant in the summer, should I apply any more fertilizer this summer? I'm thinking that because the lawn shows signs if iron deficiency, and I already put down insect control (and have never had any issues with bugs in the past), that turfbuilder plus Iron may do the trick. I'm concerned because I made the mistake of using the liquid stuff, and it only lasts 2 weeks or so. But I don't want to damage the lawn by fertilizing too often.

I live in the SF bay area in CA, with mild climate but sometimes in the 90's. I water 1 inch/week, broken up into two days/week. I mow at the highest setting, and have started to mulch instead of bag. Also, I recently took over the yard duties from the gardener, and he did NOT mow at the highest setting. I assume I will start seeing better grass quality as I begin mowing at the highest setting, but not sure it that will affect the fertilizer schedule.

Thanks all !

Applying amendments to soil is like driving in the dark if you do not have a soil test done. Your local Cooperative Extension Service Agent can provide you with assistance for a soil test and a lawn maintenance schedule in your area. Applying fertilizer to lawn when it is already stressed by summer heat and drought is not a good idea.

Watering deep at least 1 inch of water once a week is best. More water may be needed in hot, dry weather. This is a general rule of thumb, but each lawn's water requirements is different, depending on soil type, grass variety, and output of sprinkler system. Sprinkler system must be one that provides even coverage. If not, some areas in lawn will not do as well as others due to not getting enough moisture. Watering too little or too much can cause lawn problems. Water needs to reach 6-8" because that is where the roots are. The weekly deep watering will encourage strong, deep roots that go deep in search of moisture and nutrients. Water when top two inches of soil dry out. Water early in day to prevent loss of water to evaporation and to prevent disease that tends to be triggered in stressed lawns during cool nights.

Inspect lawn for thatch. Less than 1/2" of dead grass at base of grass plants is good. More than 1/2" will not allow for good passage of moisture and nutrients to soil below. Lawn may need to be dethatched. Core aeration is also recommended, especially in heavy soils, to open up soil and allow moisture and nutrients to reach roots.

Lawn can suffer from too little and too much nitrogen. Lawn can also suffer from iron deficiency. This is where the soil test comes in. Leaving grass clipping on lawn can be beneficial, but only if proper watering, fertilizing, and mowing is done. Fertilizing is best done when grass is actively growing. Last application is done 6-8 weeks before first frost. Cool season grasses are usually fertilized in spring and fall.

Liquid fertilization is usually not recommended for residential lawns because of difficulty to achieve even application. Once your County Cooperative Extension Agent helps you identify grass variety and soil test results, you can determine the proper amounts of granular amendments needed and provide you with a lawn care and maintenance schedule for your area.

thanks twelvepole. I did some research online and found my local extension service. They do not provide soil testing services, but can recommend a lab to do so.

I will use the tuna can method to determine exactly how much water I am getting per session, and will change it to just once a week for the required 1 inch..adjusting if it gets hotter.

It looks like, from my research on the extension site, that my mistake was not fertilizing enough or not evenly in the spring, when my fescue is in it's growth phase. I spoke with someone at the extension and they said that what I am seeing in my grass is a result of this, most likely. They also said that adding more fertilizer during the dormant phase will stress the grass even more. So his recommendation was to not fertilize again until the fall, and mulch, to provide a little bit of nutrients back into the grass every time I mow. The lawn is what it is this year, live and learn.

Next year I will treat with a pre-emergent crabgrass killer, and also feed with a granule fertilizer to obtain a more lasting and uniform release.

Thanks again twelve ! BTW, if I determined the pH of my soil, would that tell me anything as to nutrient deficiencies? Just wondering, because I have the means to do it for free.

The PH will only tell you if your soil is too basic or too acid. That is what the PH test does. You can buy kits for this. A soil test is a whole different thing.
A soil sample, take in an exact way, is tested. The soil is tested for nitrogen, phosphorus, and potash. The soil test tells you which nutrient is low or lacking in your soil. When you buy fertilizer, on the back of the bag will be three numbers silimar to this: 10,20,15. In this bag of fertilizer would be 10% nitrogen, 20% phosphorus, and 15% potash. Depending on your soil test, you buy the fertilizer that you need. for instance if the bag said 0%,0%,50 it would mean that is a bag of potash. Most people do not pay attention to this or do not even know it exists. Your soil test will tell you which to buy. Pay the few dollars and get the test. We probably do around 150 tests a year on your farm. It is all about keeping things growing good, and keeping the soil in balance. Good Luck

Interesting about what the Coop. Ext. Svs. told you re: soil samples. Everywhere I have lived, you can take samples to their office & they send off to the State lab. They used to provide you with the sample boxes. You should be able to take in diseased plants to be sent off to the state lab. I have read that many lawn and garden centers will send off soil samples, so you might want to check around with the big, sophisticated ones if you are lucky enough to have one. Not one here!

I have rented for nearly the last 10 years, so I have not been caring what my lawn looked like. My landlord is currently mowing my lawn--down to the roots. I told him to raise his blade to highest setting, but he knows more than anyone about everything. The lawn is currently brown, or should I say the roots are currently brown, especially during this heat drought.

Went to my Coop. Ext. Svs. Field Day yesterday. They touted all the wonderful info they share for free on gardening, homemaking, etc. Our tax dollars pay for this! They, however, charge for soil tests.

They just got the Master Gardener Program started here last year. I got involved in Master Gardener Program in the 70's. Of course, we are quite a distance from University of Kentucky where our Cooperative Extension Service is based and news gets to the hills many years later. Yours should be University of California.

Make sure you get an inch of water per week and mow at the correct height, or your lawn will look like mine. A good turf keeps weeds to a minimum and has the ability to spring back from heat and drought. It's less likely to fall victim to pests and disease.

When your grass is already stressed out, fertilizing will not be beneficial and likely to further stress the plants. Leaving clippings on lawn acts like mulch to help control moisture loss and keep roots cool, but more than 1/2" of thatch is not good. It gets compacted and blocks the opportunities for moisture and nutrients to reach roots.

How much thatch do you have? Have you ever done core aeration? What soil type? What grass variety? You should be able to take some plugs of grass to the Ext. Agent for identification. One would think that in CA that the Agents there would be among the best and far above KY because CA touts they are so far advanced in everything. We just got a new little gal in her 20's as our Ext. Agent. Her degree is in Agricultural Economics. I asked what she was going to do when someone came in with a bug or a plant disease. She replied, "Send it off to the State lab."

Remember the best times to fertilize is in spring and fall when grass is actively growing and needs nutrition. The soil test will tell you what it needs. If soil is already too nitrogen rich, you do not need nitrogen. And, like you say, you may have iron deficiency.

Live and learn. That's the most exciting thing about life. When we quit learning, our minds close and we grow prematurely old. We need to keep both our thumbs and our brain cells green. I have not gardened in years, but I subscribe to gardening magazines and am still buying gardening books. Same thing for cooking. Also, I buy survival guides. We gotta be ready for what may be in store for us!

When you read about cool season grasses, you will find that most of the articles are referring to Kentucky bluegrass, perennial ryegrass, tall fescue and fine fescue. The Dept. of Agriculture has had an ongoing turf research program that's been going on for a couple decades or longer. They are busy researching different grass varieties for specific areas of the country that will be able to provide best turf performance under specific growing conditions. This info is available to the public through Coop. Ext. Service.

You have a sound plan on watering and waiting until fall to do 'lawn renovation.' You might want to research 'lawn renovation.' If dethatching, core aerating, and overseeding, you will want to apply starter fertilizer. In the meantime, try to get the soil test, so we can know what's going on down there in 'them there roots."

Next spring, the crabgrass preventer and granular application. The combo crabgrass and fertilizer may not be what you need based on the soil test.

In a previous life, I loved my Scott's spreader. It provided the most even application when applied at amount and rate per label directions and applying the recommended fertilizer per soil test. Fortunately, the weed/feed products met my needs in Virginia. They may not yours. You can buy crabgrass preventer as a stand-alone product.

Farmers who raise crops for sale are very dependent on soil tests in order to get the greatest productivity. Here's an interesting read: http://cahe.nmsu.edu/pubs/_a/a-122.html Note that this article is written by an Extension Horticulturalist at NMSU.

In this article from Purdue Turf Grass Science Program, note this: "Contact your county Cooperative Extension office or soil testing lab for the fee structure, mailing containers, and other information." http://www.agry.purdue.edu/turf/pubs/ay-18.pdf

This makes me wonder with whom you spoke, the girl that answered the phone or the Agent. Find out who your Agent is and become friends. Coop. Ext. Svs. a great way to get involved in the community and they are always looking for volunteers and attendees for their many wonderful classes, lectures, and programs. You volunteer for something, and they will nurture you.

This article explains about pH and if you need to sweeten the soil with some lime if too acidic. It also explains about the N-P-K you see listed on fertilizer bags (i.e., 10-10-10)--nitrogen, potassium, calcium. It also provides info on recommended amendments based on soil test. This is the typical info passed on by the Coop. Ext. Agent re: soil tests. This article does not say anything about iron deficiency. It is not clear to me if this would be a separate test or not. And, I would want to know what type of soil you have. I am sure you can Google for more info and will become an expert turf manager in short time.

I am disappointed about the response you got at your local Coop. Ext. Office. I have been involved with these folks everywhere I have lived for the past 20 years. They have been wonderful.

I moved from Appalachia to Tidewater and entered a new Growing Zone, marine clay, acidic soil that thrived with loblolly pines and azaleas, longer growing season. I grew up where you could stick a seed in the soil and spit on it and it would grow. Of course, we had to haul water from the creek to grow our gardens when there was no rain, so we could have enough food to survive the winter. Tidewater was like moving to a foreign country for me. I had to enroll in the Master Gardener Program for self-preservation. It was a very rewarding experience and an opportunity to volunteer at the research gardens there. I learned so many things and met so many plants that I have been inspired to continue this learning even though my life has taken me elsewhere. I only grow things in my mind. Perhaps ones of these days! And, I will be ready. But, as we sleep there are so many new varieties of plant species that come to market. The key is to know what survives in your Growing Zone and your growing conditions and how to care for it.

Please know I appreciate all your posts. I envy your opportunities and the ability to own a plot of the earth and your desire to improve upon it. Meet your Agent!!

One more story. Shoot me because sometimes I get excited when I meet someone who's truly interested in a subject and can converse!!

I own a cabin in the mountains of WV where it's not uncommon to get 3' of snow. The previous owner planted some blackberries and some fruit trees. The cabin came furnished. As I was digging through the books and papers left in the house, there were all these articles from the Coop. Ext. Service on how to grow and maintain the apples, peaches, cherries, and blackberries he obviously planted for the wildlife. He obviously never read that literature or did anything they recommended, but I gave him credit for contacting the Coop. Ext. Agent. The fruit trees and berries were too far gone when I bought the property. I concluded he simply planted them for the deer, bear, and other wildlife that would feed on their fruits. They would have been far more productive and had an extended life if he had properly pruned, sprayed, and nurtured them, whether he ever harvested them for himself or not. My neighbors have called over the years to report the many bears and deer at these trees and siting other species at the trees. Only the two cherry trees stand now and are a feast for the birds because my neighbors are too lazy to harvest. The brochures from the Coop. Ext. Svs. are still on the bookshelf there and the info stored in my gray cells if I ever get a chance to grow things for myself again.

Happy days, fuente! You warm the cockles of my Irish heart. Check your thumbs. I think they are turning green! Welcome to the world of horticulture!

thanks jack and twelvepole. It's great that you guys are so passionate about this !!

Yeah, that's what they told me, and it's not a big deal really. It's easier and quicker for me to send it off to the lab directly, rather than send it to them, then they send it to the lab. No problems here. If I decide to do so, I'll call them for a lab contact and get the test done. Depending on the price vs. reward I guess. My lawn is the best on the block already, and my obsession with it is bordering on unhealthy (according to my wife). Not a weed to be found..not one (Except for a silver-dollar sized patch of crabgrass). I have checked for thatch and I have less than 1/2". The grass type is tall fescue, and the soil type is loam, leaning towards clay in some areas. As I recall, the soil under the sod is more 'loamy'.

I'll hold off on anything until I contact the lab and see what the pricing, etc. are going to be. Sounds like a good idea though. And I'll ask for someone else at the extension agency, just to see if maybe I got some incorrect info.

Thanks again guys.

Someone posted the other day and said the pH test was a separate test now and that the regular soil test was less than $20 and the pH test was less than $20. As I said, I have not done this for a couple decades.

Jack is a rancher and would have more current knowledge. If Jack speaks, he knows what he's talking about it because his green thumb is probably current through Coop Ext. Service. He's a pro.

Ranchers and farmers hang close to their Coop. Ext. Agents for info and grant money. Keep in mind that things vary from state to state and county to county.

My Rotary honors the ranchers and farmers in our area each year with a dinner. I MC'ed that dinner last year as Rotary President. Most of the farmers there were into beef cattle. I guess that's the most profitable. I did have a goat farmer.

I guess I was disappointed because I have known crop farmers over the years. Farmers growing wheat, milo, soy, corn, etc. My only regret was that I never married a farmer. There were no crop farmers at our Rotary farmers' honors dinner.

A hot subject right now in our area is the hay crop. Those that got the spring crop in in time are happy. Those that got it in too late, are crying. Now, a second mowing will be poor because of drought. The folks I know say that it will be $6.00/bale by season's end. Last year it was $4.00. I talked with two farmers this week and they are rushing to get hay in this week because rain is on the way. We need it desperately because we are in a drought here in E. KY. Rain and snow usually blows around us to the NE.

My tour of the Coop. Ext. Svs. gardens yesterday boasted plastic mulch and the benefits of growing crops with plastic, but they cautioned the downfall in rainy years. I was impressed, but not convinced. The plastic is not biodegradable in landfills. No one mentioned this or the costs of the plastic mulch. You know, costs vs profit.

Quick update…

I did the tuna can test on the front lawn this morning. Turns out I can save some water, which is a good thing here in CA.

The front lawn, which is fescue also, was getting watered twice a week, at 45 minutes a time. The least full can was right at the 1 inch mark, so I am going to scratch the second watering per week. I’ll do the back yard tomorrow morning, and hopefully can scratch the second watering from that as well.

Thanks twelvepole…you’ve saved me quite a bit of money already. Of course, all that will be negated this month, as I need to refill my 400 gallon hot tub following repairs...!

I contacted the extension and they gave me the names of some labs for soil testing. I have inquired about pricing and it’s between $20 and $30 dollars per sample. I also remembered that before I cut my gardeners loose, then did come and fertilize with granules in the spring, so my lawn did get a longer-lasting feeding then the spray I used. So if anything, there is too much nitrogen, rather than not enough, if you combine the totals with the granules and spray. They also mowed very low, so that may be why I’m seeing some areas that are not thriving.

I’ll monitor it for a few weeks, mow at the highest setting, and see if it greens up and the yellow goes away. I’m also thinking of using Ironrite on a test patch to see if takes care of the yellowing. Can’t hurt, as my neighbor has a bag that he is willing to let me take a cup-full out of.