Rugs, Carpets and Carpeting - glue down removal and installation

Seven years ago a local flooring dealer installed 200 yards of glue down in our business. They did a beautiful job and we hired them again last week to replace it. This time was a different story. The last job took about 12 hours but this time it took 26 hours due to the removal of the previous glue down. The store owner tells me that the hand held mechanical scraper was the best tool to use but I remember that on the last job the crew used an upright machine, much larger that was about the size of a push mower. He doesn't have one and tells me that "they don't make them anymore" He is telling me that the quoted price of 300 dollars for removal should have been closer to 1000. I think he sent his crew out without the proper tools for the job.

After wearing themselves out removing the old carpet, the install of the new carpet looks well below average. The new carpet has a pattern and every seam is clearly visible. The store owner tells me this is the nature of patterned carpet. We have not paid for the job yet and I have noticed seams beginning to pull up a little after 3 days (we vacuum three times daily) even though they used seam sealer. The price of the job was close to 4k and I smell bs. Also when my wife ordered the carpet she did not sign anything. Can anyone give me advice on how to proceed with this situation? We have heavy traffic (restaurant) and the last job held up well for 7 years. I do not think this this will hold up. They are contacting the carpet rep. for a price break because the carpet has some light/dark shading differences but I think the whole job was more or less botched.

Did they use the same installers for both jobs? That alone can make all the difference. One of the reasons to use pattern carpet is because the seams hide better with a pattern material, along with the occasional pot of coffee. Unless there's some sort of flaw in the carpet, they shouldn't be all that noticeable. The "don't make that machine anymore" thing is sort of smelly. I don't have such a machine either. I cut the carpet into strips and pull it out in small pieces if need be. If it's a big open room, I can usually have it pulled up in three or four hours if it's still glued well, and I work alone. A crew should be able to do it more quickly. The grand for two hundred yards of tear up is very smelly. I normally charge a buck a yard unless it's a situation like yours in which case I charge a buck and a half. Consequently, say it took four hours to do two hundred yards at a buck and a half a yard. That's seventy five bucks an hour. How much do they need to make any how? If the seams were sealed properly, they shouldn't be effected by a vacuum cleaner. Did you see them seal the seams or are you taking their word for it? Sealing seams on carpet is not optional, especially with glue down. I, personally, think the requirement with some stretch in applications is just so much "CYA" for manufacturers, but not with glue down installations. It doesn't take long for them to start coming apart if they aren't sealed.

Smokey, I've read some of your posts and I'm sure it's a safe bet that if you had this job I wouldn't be here looking for advice. They did use seam sealer but apparently their technique wasn't right. We were promised the same installers but when the crew showed up both guys were about 22, 23 years old. They assured us they were qualified and since we had posted our closing hours for the previous 2 weeks (open 24 hours daily) and after speaking to the owner of the carpet place, we allowed them to proceed. The glue on the old carpet had not crystalized and it was some really tough stuff. They chose to try to remove it in rather large pieces with the small machine while several people pulled it. At one time I had 5-6 guys pulling the stuff up. The entire job took 13 hours the first day and 11 hours the next day...I previously said 26 hours because they showed up 2 hours late on day one. Also, one stretch had to be pulled up after it was glued because the seam was completely mismatched. While pulling it up, they ripped a couple of holes in it with their machine. We stopped them and gave them our heat gun to finish pulling it up or else they would have completely destroyed it. They still used it after doing a couple of cut out patches with me having the option to replace it later if I was unhappy with it.

I'm sure they don't want to rip all this new stuff out and replace it and I'm also sure that I'm not going to pay the proposal price due to substandard work. Right now I'm thinking about offering a little over half the price for the entire job due to the fact that I don't think it's gonna hold up and while it does look better than the old carpet, it doesn't look nearly as good as it should. I blame the owner for sending an unqualified crew without the right tools and although they did work hard, they didn't work smart.

I feel like everyone is gonna lose in this situation. I have a shoddy job that probably will need to be replaced sooner than it should. The installers probably won't get paid much for their work, and the owner might lose money but in the end, he should know what his crews limitations are. He also will never get any more referals or business from me. For the previous 7 years we had told anyone who was willing to listen how happy we were with the first job. I know it's difficult without seeing the work but does my approach sound within reason to you? Thanks for your help.

I apologize for not getting back on this sooner. I was just browsing and found it. What you propose is common practice to resolve such issues with stores that are unwilling to make a bad job right. The only thing anyone has of any value is their name, reputation, integrity. Any one who doesn't protect that is an idiot. I appreciate the compliment and you're right, had I been there things would have been different. But, such was not the case. I've seen young installers who were very competent so I don't get too concerned with an installer's age. But, the younger the installer, the more questions I tend to ask. A reputable store will do what ever it takes to salvage a job, but this one may not have a choice. Carpet installation is a very demanding trade physically and young installers are rare because the generation coming up seems to want "easy" work and this isn't it. These folks may not be able to get better installers because they just aren't available. Just a thought.

Thanks for the advice and insight. One week later...the carpet seems to be coming up from the backing in several places that aren't near seams. My original plan to offer a little more than half price has dropped to offering not much. I have a meeting with the dealer and the mfg. rep tomorrow and my approach will be that the entire job, carpet and installation is unacceptable.
A different installer who does work for the dealer stopped in on Friday and told me it was a botched job....he will do the reinstallation when that time comes. He also called the dealer while he was there and seemed to be pleading my case to him and making headway. When I called the dealer and told him about the carpet coming up in a few spots he seemed relieved...I guess he will be covered from the install expenses due to the carpet being defective.

It seems my biggest problem now will be arranging the next installation after September, due to the fact that we're in our busy season and I don't want any down time until then. I will offer to pay 20-25% to keep him happy until then. You are absolutely right on the reputation part. This dealer tried to convince me that the job was good and I take that as an insult to my intelligence. It also tells me that he will try to convince others to pay when his work is subpar. He will receive payment in full upon completion provided the next installation is good but afterwards he will never see my bare concrete again. Thanks for your help...it is appreciated.

On a side note...my waitstaff manager is also relieved because she was the first one to drop a syrup filled plate on the soon to be ripped out carpet.

Good grief Charlie Brown! I'm really sorry all this happened to you. There are primarily three reasons for carpet coming apart. The first and most common is an installer who didn't do his job. The second and not nearly so common is the wrong pad for the job. The third and very least often seen is defective carpet. In twenty years of installation, I've only seen it three or four times. Pad is not an issue for your job, consequently, to have two of the three on one job is a night mare. Sounds as if you're on a better path now and I sure hope it goes better from here.