Alternative Fueled, Hybrid and Electric Vehicles - Gas Prices

Just bought my most expensive tank of gas ever. Actually, I didn't even fill the tank, I just quit when I had $40 in it. Not too long ago I could fill it up and get change back from a $20.

Don't feel bad; if I run my wrecker low enough it'll take $80. One of my fellow tow'ers actually recently had a customer ask him what happened to $25 tows [he was apparently shocked when he asked how much to tow his car].

Had a $25 tow last year - three blocks up the street to the dealer.

Everything I've read or heard seems to point to gas prices never going much lower than the price we are currently paying :( I guess we will get used to it with time - remember when it first topped $2

Last time I filled up my old work van, gas was only $2.60 and it took $52.50. Don't dare fill it up now. My wife's merc would barely hold $20 when new but now takes $40 :eek: I borrowed a motor home back in 1990 and it took over $60 to fill it up but that also meant over 60 gallons :)

As long as we drive we'll have to get used to it but I'm not sure I'll ever like it.

I drive a little over 50 miles each way to work and my Buick only gets 26-27 mpg. At these prices for fuel, I'm seriously considering another car for work and leaving the Buick for only when I have the whole family with me.

I drive 50 miles round trip everyday and I get 11 mpg. I bought this beast pre-9/11 and owe more than I could sell it for now. I'm kinda stuck.

Finally we're back on this subject! :D

If it weren't for the CA bad drivers, I'd get my license to ride a motorcycle and buy a motorcycle. I can't believe it's costing me $50+ to fill the tank. That's almost a ticket to Disneyland!

Isn't there some law to get pay raises b/c of "cost of living"?

The worst part is that other things go up because of increased transportation costs - less money in your pocket from buying gas and now groceries cost more as well.

yep...just like the 2 cent raise in stamps.

And then there's always the carriers/services that charge the "Fuel Surcharge" that didn't start existing since.... ? I dunno when, but I do recall that didn't exist before. :(

DIY addict asks if there is a "law" concerning pay raises because of the cost of living increasing.

No, but many Labor Union contracts do have a "cost-of-living-allowance (COLA) clause in them. The amount of any COLA increase is usually a penny for a certain percentage increase in the "cost of living" as determined by the federal Bureau of Labor Statistics. COLA increases are usually made effective on a quarterly basis although some contracts only allow for them on a yearly basis.

Social Security payments also have a COLA escalator that helps defray the additional costs for those that are drawing a SS award.

It is the people (like myself) that are on fixed incomes that will be hurt the most. As pointed oout, the cost of ALL goods and services will increase because of the increase in fuel prices. This will, of course, have all workers asking for raises to just hold the same purchasing power. The result will be a general inflationary trend and a relative devaluation of our dollars.

I telecommute so I can't complain personally but whenever I venture from home I am (recently) very shocked at the price of gas. I cringe when I see how much hubby pays in gas every week for his "fuel efficient" Toyota pickup (well it's better than most pickups at least). Because we live rurally he drives around 80 miles round trip to jobsites in town. I've been glancing around for a more fuel efficient car but we live where AWD or 4WD is nearly a requirement half the year, so our options are quite limited. I already get 28 mpg in my suby which is better than most AWD options... remember when THAT was considered efficient?? ::sigh::

It seems like deisel might be becoming popular again. I see gas is around $3/gal. in my area, and deisel is still around $2.60/gal.

I think my next work vehicle will be deisel and I plan on making biodeisel to supplement my fuel source.

I bought gas tuesday for $2.88 a gal, went out today and everyone's changed their signs to $2.99 :eek: should have stayed home with my head stuck in a sand pile :D


DIYaddict - thanks for reminding me I forgot to get 2 cents stamps while I was out, doc says I got a strong heart but if I see another 10 cent hike in a day or two.........:eek:.....:D

since the gas prices starting going up a few years ago a lot stations list all the taxes that are included with the gas price, maybe that's what the fuel surcharge is about......... like that's gonna make us feel better :p

$2.99? We were at 3.14 the last time I filled up and the little, "you'll be walking soon" light came on this evening on my way home so I'll be getting a fresh shock when I get to the station tomorrow. I'm still working on getting the VW pickup on the road and have gotten more motivated of late. That 40 to 50 MPG is looking pretty good these days.

When I graduated HS gas was $ 1.31 for 92 octane and that was outrageous at that time.(25 yrs ago-do the math).
We had better get use to this because of the world market (China) is demanding more oil and it's not going down. We can also blame the environmentalists who freek out when somebody wants to drill for new oil in the US. We use to have something like 130 oil refineries in the early 80's now were down to something like 40 ? can someone correct me on that.
Just imagine if Iran's dictator Ahmadinajad took over the Middle East ( which could happen) it could go over $ 100.00 a barrel ! right now we're paying about $ 65.00 to $ 70.00 for a barrel of oil.
So it's the ol'e supply and demand and commodity rules taking over.
I can remember in the late 80's gas went down to .75 cents a gallon for about six months, wow that was great !
I think I'm gonna get back in the bicycle business.

I remember that gas crunch in the '80s. Mom and Dad bought a Toyota corolla in lieu of the huge buick station wagon. That little car would go from here to the moon and halfway back on a tank of gas. Here we are 30 years later, and our cars get less mileage than they did back then. Heck, my Nissan Pathfinder gets less than 20mpg. You'd think that in 30 years, with the technology, computers, fuel injection and other high tech "efficient" stuff they put in these cars, they could get a little more gas mileage.

My service truck only gets around 11 mpg. I'm working towards getting a diesel.

You guys are just kids! We had a gas war when I was a kid and it got down to seventeen cents a gallon. All the farmers were taking drums in the back of their trucks and filling them up. I paid thirty five dollars for my first set of tires and had to do it on payments.

Ya, I remember when gas wars were between stations not countries :D I remember my dad buying gas for 11 cents a gal. When I started driving it averaged 20-25 cents per gal. I've personally bought gas for under 20 cents during a gas war.

Funny thing, when Nixon instated the price/wage freeze in the early 70's on a monday morning, the previous saturday gas prices were in the mid 20's but sunday night all the stations raised their prices to the mid 30's....... but nobody knew before hand that he was going to instate a freeze :p :D

I too am suffering sticker shock from gas prices, but it just means I drive less. I am not upset by the current price (it is actually still cheaper now than it would have been, inflation adjusted, than it was when I started to drive), but the fact in can change a dollar in a little over a month is unreal. Government controls are not the answer.

The government already controls the gas. They prevent construction of refineries (as do various other groups who make sure the builders are tied up in court). No refineries, no octane. Not enough to meet demand, prices go up. But that is not the only reason prices are high, government regulations and taxes are the big reason.

The feds get over 18 cents a gallon, and here in VA, the state (one of the lower gas tax states) gets about another 18 cents. That is more than 10% of the price of gas. Then the states and localities mandate various additives be put in the gas. Where I am, they claim these additives add about 20 cents a gallon to the price of gas (and you can watch the wholesale vs pump cost and see when the new additives are put in, the difference changes by about 20 cents). Because every locality is different, it makes it more expensive. Finally (this is what I really love), the additives REDUCE your mileage (10% ethanol alone reduces mileage 5-8%), yet the government gets the same amount per gallon as they do the stuff that you need less of.

In a nutshell, not counting the cost of unnecessary regulations on the industry (some regulation is required), the govement is responsible for 20-30% of the price you are now paying for gas.

As a side note, I support alternate fuels that are cost effective, and we see the market (high oil prices) creating a need for such and they are being developed. There is the potential for a cycle bringing a decrease in the price of gas again. More alternate fuels (and more fuel efficiency) means less demand on gas, that means the market will drive the price down.

I know I am babbling, please forgive me.

Have a great day!

Doesn't sound like babbling to me. I have a theory that I've believed for years. Sort of like my kid and santa clause, but still, my theory. Gas prices have been this high and higher in Europe for much longer than here. I think the "oil companys" or whoever controls such things, have been working on getting us to the same level all along. Since we use so much of it compared to the rest of the world, they couldn't do it all at once, so they've been "stair stepping" the prices until they got us closer to the target prices. Ever notice how the price will go up, drop back a bit, and then go up again? Ever see it go below or match the lower previous price? I haven't. The "lowered" price is never as low as it was before they raised it so it just stair steps it's way, higher and higher. Just my theory, for what ever that may be worth.

The reason the prices are higher in Europe (and elsewhere) is primarily because the governments there tax it more (I know, it is hard to believe) than they do here.

The only time the stations really make much money on gas is when the wholesale price does come down (as I said earlier, I watch the day to day price of gasoline (not oil, there is a disconnect between the two) and compare it to what happens at the stations... I have no life :)). How you may ask.

As Smokey pointed out, you never see the price go down lower than the previous low. That is not entirely true, but this is what you do see. Let's assume the wholesale price of gas (on the market) goes up 10 cents in a day. The next day, you will see stations raise their price 10 cents (even though they have cheaper gas in the tanks) telling the consumer they have to pay for replacement gas. I accept that point until the opposite takes place. Assume a 10 cent drop in wholesale price. Assuming it stays down, the price will eventually drop 10 cents, however, it will not be overnight as it was in the increase scenario. Why? This time you will be told that they have to wait until the more expensive gas in the tanks is all used up. I have no problem with either way of looking at how to price gas, I just don't like it when both are played at the same time.

One great example of how governments are socking it to us in my former home state of WI. In this state, there is a law the establishes the minimum profit a gas station can make on a gallon of gas.

Not until the consumer puts any pressure on BIG oil will gas prices ever change or any other type fuel alternative be readily available? They are in it to make MONEY,MONEY,MONEY !!! Why would they change over to any other fuel when they make Billions with a capitol B, off you and me buying their gas ?? It is our Cocaine and they will supply it long as we are demanding it !!! They KILLED the electric car way back in the early 1900's and will kill anything else unless they can control it and make big bucks off of it!! Thats the American way!!!!

gg, what would you consider an excessive profit margin? If any of your investments made 8-12%, would you think that was too much? That is exactly what "Big Oil" made last year, approximately 10%. In other words, they made more money, but they had to spend a lot to get there. A 10% rate of return for any company is considered good (slightly above average perhaps), but it is not excessive. The ones who are really making the profit on Big Oil are the state and federal governments. While an oil company makes about 20-25 or so cents on every gallon, the feds are making over 18 and the states anywhere from 10 to 40+. Who is gouging who? At least the oil companies have to work (and invest) to make their 10%, the government just takes.

I kind of like not having too many electric cars, there are a lot fewer power plants and transmission lines needed (it is great to listen to people complain when a new plant or line is proposed, could you imagine the condemnation of the electric car industry if we actually caused more to be needed?). I wonder how much we would be paying per KWH if we had electric cars, you can bet it would be at least triple what we are paying now.

Supply & demand.

I couldnt agree more with Dave Pearson, no matter what method we use to power our forms of transportation, the governments and the suppliers of the energy source will find a way to stick it to us. Electric cars will undoubtedly bring an increase in our Kw/h rates, justified by the fact that the power companies need more generating and transmiting capabilities in order to meet the demand. We cant win.
While we are on the subject of high gas prices, I would absolutely love to go the gas station and see a price of a mere $3.00 per gallon. In Cape Breton, Nova Scotia (the east coast of Canada) we are paying an average of $1.15 per litre, which is approx. $5.10 per imperial gallon (works about to about $4.90 per gallon in US funds) and slightly over 45% of it goes to the feds and provincial gov't in the form of taxes. The high price of gas will never change here and it has forced our family to become a one vehicle family again and made me move into a more economical vehicle ( 2003 Impala , which is giving me approximately 37 mpg).
So the next time you pull up to the pumps and see a price of $3.00 think about what you could be paying.
I know this does little or nothing to make you feel better about being raped at the pumps but it could be worse.

We (the U.S.) get gasoline cheaper than most of the developed world. If we substitute ethanol we become more independant and raise the cost of food and other produtcs.

Look at at Europe. - $s higher per gallon.

Iran imports gasoline and then subsidizes it to the few cars they have.

We sell Alaskan crude to others and buy crude where it is cheaper than using our own.

It is an international market and prices will get higher without more domestic refineries and when the real impact of cars in India and China hit the oil market.

Dick

The way I see it, the government is gently encouraging their agenda of decreasing the peoples use of fuels by increasing the cost. It falls in line with offering incentives for buying hybrids on your tax return and offering reasonably priced alternative and hybrid vehicles. Not to mention an upsurge in alternative transportation in the works and being advertised. Of course the ‘agenda’ could go much deeper, I have no doubts, I think a lot of it has to do with prioritizing the military’s use of fuel.

I ‘fill up’ every other day as a home health nurse. I broke down and bought a Prius last month, as the gas I was paying in my other car could pay for the monthly payments of this new car, it just made sense. Now I can go an extra day before ‘filling up’ and it only holds 9-10 gallons.

hey guys

i drive around 60 miles everyday and finally gave up my 99 Grand AM's 29-30mpg for a 94 Geo Metro with an astonishing 45-50 mpg summer time, 35-40 winter time. And I still have to pay over $20 a week for gas and now I drive a piece of junk car. But my piece of junk car that I bought for $150 could easily go for a grand on eBay, everyone is buying them up because they get insanely good mileage.

You know what I don't understand is why auto makers will not produce another car like the Metro anymore? The 3 cylinder engine is the key to good mileage. The 4 cylinder Metro models get 10-15 mpg worse, so its a no brainer.

Chevy came out with its new Aevo a while ago, that tiny little car no bigger than my geo gets 34 mpg! The new Chevy Impala gets better mileage than that and with a V6 engine and much bigger chassis. Now what sense does that all make?

I'm not really going anywhere with this post, just ranting :).

Looking of an answer

How much hydrogen gas.. Browns Gas is needed to produce enough energy to use in a vehicle for a week and reduce or eliminate the dependence on gasoline

Hmm, well I dont have an answer for you, but found the idea quite intriguing. for an overcap, it sounds as if they are just using the hydrogens from the water molecule by breaking the bonds with electricity. It sounds like it uses a lot of electricity though. They need to find a more efficient way to free the protons. the guy below claimed to have run a VW by brown's gas for a week, maybe he has your answer, good luck! :)

http://www.svpvril.com/svpweb9.html

He also said:

"We must add the note it is unlikely Brown's Gas will be used as a so-called free energy source. The current manner BG is being generated uses quite a bit of electricity. Currently the cost of electricity exceeds the value of the generated H as fuel".

And you can't run it in a Cummins 5.9 24 valve Turbo, anyway.

Aptera – birth of the future, or resurgence of the past.
Smart, miserly, and timely. Technically it's a motorcycle, but it has automotive features. This one, at 200mpg, and its cousins are the next wave.

The 3 cylinder engine,[in the Geo] is the key to good mileage. The 4 cylinder Metro models get 10-15 mpg worse, so its a no brainer.



What is the weight difference of the 2 cars? And is the acceleration greatly reduced in the 3 cylinder? Is the 4-cylinder more beefy up front? If so, maybe it could handle front end impacts more. Then one would have to weigh out what gas savings means to you, as opposed to those other features.

What is the weight difference of the 2 cars? And is the acceleration greatly reduced in the 3 cylinder? Is the 4-cylinder more beefy up front? If so, maybe it could handle front end impacts more. Then one would have to weigh out what gas savings means to you, as opposed to those other features.

Its the same frame, different engine. The acceleration i would not know from not having driven a 4 cyl, but i would guess theres a little more get up and go, but i could easily do burn outs in 2nd gear on the 3 cyl. so.... As far as being more safe in accidents, i highly doubt it, they weight next to nothing.

Back to the original topic :D

I bought gas for my tractor monday morning $3.55..... and a long line at the pumps. Drove past the same station on the way to church last night $3.65 :eek: 14 cent increase in 36 hrs :wall:

The gas I bought at $4.03 a couple of days ago was $4.09 today. It now costs more than $10 to mow my lawn (4-5 times a month).

And no end in sight.

Look for more gas-price-affected cost increases on everything from soup to nuts; I just had to raise my rates. Although I tried to hold out as long as I could, the rising gas prices coupled with a general slow down in business dictated the increase.

what I don't understand is you know how everything is going up in price because of gas...but the cost of lumber is at an all time low...its $1.78 for a pine 2x4 8' long here. Doesn't that just seem a little odd? I realize the housing market is horrible, but still...

$3.86 to $4.09 localy for '92 gas.
$4.39 for diesel.

I drive a Ford Econoline Van with 8 cyliner triton engine that gets 15-20mpg. Worst of all, I drive several hundred miles a week.

What's really irksome is that The USA is the only nation so foolish to actively deny itself its own natural resourses in a time of crisis. Between ANWR, The Green River oil sands, and The Bakkan oil reserve, the USA is sitting on the worlds largest oil field of something to the (conservative) estimate of 800 Billion barrels. I think that's about right. Check "Rand Reports" for the right number. Rand reports that as being enough to last 600 years at current consuption USA per-capita rates.
But the damn politicians, lawyers and eco-fools have prevented the extraction of the much needed oil. Now look at where we are. >:(

.but the cost of lumber is at an all time low...its $1.78 for a pine 2x4 8' long here.


I've also noticed building material prices being stabilized on the low side although from past market changes, I believe the lack of recent hurricanes is the cause. Whenever there is a lot of storm damage, lumber and especially plywood increase in price.

2x4's aren't as cheap here, $2.50 per 8' lenght but sawmill 2x4s are a lot higher than they used to be. The local mills around here now get $2 per 8' 2x4.

not only are we not retrieving the oil, but if we were to go after it, how many years would it take to get ready to retrieve it?

Do you think this is all part of some larger scheme? like say what happens in these middle eastern countries start running out of oil. Then the tables would be turned and they and everyone else would have to buy oil from us?

Theres so many options out there but no one wants the most logical common sense solutions, they keep wanting to pushing crap like E85 (i've used it, its worthless) and biodiesel.

and to think that they used to throw away gas when they distilled oil products in the late 1890's

We should make the Hooover Dam of hydrogen production project a reality and then sell h2 to the world

I've also noticed building material prices being stabilized on the low side although from past market changes, I believe the lack of recent hurricanes is the cause. Whenever there is a lot of storm damage, lumber and especially plywood increase in price.

Typical supply & demand. On the retail end....building materials prices have stabilized because the housing industry and the economy is in a funk so that has lessened demand for these products. You'll notice both Lowes, HomeDepot, cement and lumber suppliers have been reporting declining sales since the housing market pulled back and the demand for other building products have declined. However; due to higher costs to transport (truck and rail) these items we may not see any significant price drops in the building materials industry for a while.

We're no were near the peak of high oil prices...not even at $150/barrel. Everyone says the bubble is near....meanwhile China's growth hasn't slowed very much, India is still considered an emerging market, and now Russia is considered to be the next frontier market to watch. It's not only America who's sucking up oil in groves. This is a global economy we live in, anymore, where it's cheaper to hire labor in other countries so American businesses moved their operations overseas, thus driving the growth and need for energy in foreign countries.

Heard an analyst a couple weeks ago predicting $10-$12 per gallon gasoline, eventually. As one who watching the energy markets closely I have to say that prediction doesn't seem so far fetched...eventually...if we continue relying on fossil fuels.

not only are we not retrieving the oil, but if we were to go after it, how many years would it take to get ready to retrieve it?

Do you think this is all part of some larger scheme? like say what happens in these middle eastern countries start running out of oil. Then the tables would be turned and they and everyone else would have to buy oil from us?

Theres so many options out there but no one wants the most logical common sense solutions, they keep wanting to pushing crap like E85 (i've used it, its worthless) and biodiesel.

Anwar...that's what, 10-15 years before it's piped down to the states? I can only imagine what oil prices will be by the time we see that oil.

The tables will turn on the Middle East when the world has less demand for oil. Hopefully that will happen before the Middle East runs out of oil.

Btw, Canada is the largest exporter of oil to the US, almost twice as much than the Saudi's....and Canada's oil comes from surface mining (oil sands excavation). I find it rather amusing that these oil sands companies were barely surviving several years ago and most of the energy market analysts were writing them off as losers. But now our neighbors to the north are laughing all the way to the bank as they make money hand over foot with the current oil prices as we continue importing their oil.

Sure, there's a number of alternatives besides E85. Corn has been pushed for a longer time in the industry as some type of quick fix. In a nutshell, though, finding the best alternative energy has turned into, "which comes first, the horse or the wagon?" while deciding if there's a market for a specific technology. Hydrogen fuel cell vehicles (HFCVs) look pretty good but infrastructure (hydrogen re-fueling stations) and cost effective production isn't there yet to support a big market. Meanwhile automotive manufacturers who are making HFCV's are stating these vehicles are getting a range of up to 500 miles. Man, my old truck gets 18 mpg on a good day with the wind at my back!

did anyone see that car on the NBC Nightly News, it got like 300 miles to a gallon, could travel from ny to la on one tank. Thats great, but the car itself is the problem, you can only put two people in it, and thats it. So i drive from ny to la with a friend, where are we going to put our luggage? Probably would have to have it shipped UPS.

If they want to make these cars catch on, they need to make them more mainstream, i don't want to drive a snow dome down I-35 at 75 mph next to a tractor/trailer.