Architecture - looking for information (Estimating)

I am posting in THIS forum because with a moderator name like Jack the Contractor, it seemed like the right man to ask. And with a signature such as yours, well, I'm ready to fly with the eagles! LOL

I have gotten so many wonderful answers on this website over the years. And I have gotten a few "slams" too. Now, I am not asking for "advice", I am asking for information.

I am a female. I have been doing some "side" work for about 2 years now. Everyone has been very happy with my jobs thus far. Due to extenuating circumstances, I quit my "real" job today. Several business people that I have done work for are encouraging me to go out on my own as a handy woman. There are a million things I need to know, but for now, the most important to me, is to know how to bid jobs and keep it fair to the consumer, but worthwhile to me. I've tried to do searches to see how much jobs would be bid for here, but I have had no luck. I realize that part of it is a learning curve, but I also know there are "standards" out there. Having quit my bread and butter job today, I need to know more about how to bid jobs. What would you suggest Jack? Any advice?

Any constructive input is soooooo appreciated!!!!!

I am not going to step on any advice (information) Jack may give, but give you some of my enlightenment. The day after you quit a job ain't the best time to start learning how to bid jobs. It takes market surveys, helpful tutoring from existing professionals, and a good nose for what the market can stand.
I, like you, left a good paying job at the insistence of my wife to pursue the things I liked to do, rather than what someone else wanted. It was scary, as I liked that paycheck that landed in the bank every Friday. Now, if you don't work, you don't eat. Of course that was 15 years ago, and there has been alot of water under the bridge.
The best advice (information) I can give (and remember it was free) is to get in with an established contractor, and be up front in that you want to learn certain aspects of how to bid jobs. If your expertise level is there, and all you need is to learn bidding, you could apprentice for a short term until you felt comfortable doing it on your own. Otherwise it will be a hard row to hoe.

There are many books and discs that will give you the information on bidding and running a business but there is no better (and harsher) teacher than experience. In my view, the most important factors in the process are identifying costs and estimating the time to do a job. No one can tell you how long it will take you to do something. I have been contracting for over thirty years and I still get surprises.

NOGURU: I don't know how much help I can be, but I will run through a few things, and maybe you can get some good tips. First of all estimating is a very hard thing to learn, or at least be taught to you. There is a fall out rate of about 60% a year on want to be contractors and they failed because they do not get the estimating program lined out correctly. It is kind of one of those things you have a sixth sense about. You either pick it up quickly or you don't. My lead foreman could not estimate the cost of a window if it had the price tag on it. However my roofer can drive up to a house, take one look at the roof and with his calculator can give a price for re-roofing without even getting out of the truck. And, he is always within $100. That includes labor and materials. So there are the two sides. Now I will help you get started, but first I need some information from you. What kind of handy work do you do, or want to do ? Where do you live ? What big Home Improvement Stores are in your area ? Menards, Lowes, Home Depot etc. Get back to me with this information and we will start down the road to estimating. Talk to you soon.

I am sooooo sorry it took me this long to get back with you guys!! Usually I get an email notification that I have a response, and since I did not get an email, I thought I had no responses!!!! I posted another question somewhere else and had no email notification, but checked and there was an answer so I came back here and sure enough I had 3 replies!

Okay, so let me start with Jack. I understand that failure is a possibility, however, I won't accept it until I've done my best. I believe I have several things going for me. I believe the female aspect is going to be a major plus for me for single women. I also show up when I say I will, and get the job done. I hear so often about people being left hanging. That said, I am in Springfield Missouri. I know bidding can't be taught, but there HAVE to be some kind of general rules. I heard the other day that to drywall an entire house would be charged out at 38 cents a sq ft. That's the kind of thing I am trying to figure out. Aren't there some kind of "guidelines" about say painting, flooring, etc. for charges per square foot? I can do just about anything, but drywalling, painting, wallpapering, flooring, wall tiling are my preferred trades. I have a woman that wants me to build shelves for her, and not JUST shelves, but the Taj Mahal of shelves. LOL Any way, stuff like that I know I will just have to learn as I go, but again, I'm thinking there should be some kind of "standard" per sq foot charges for those other jobs like painting, etc. Here I frequent Lowes but we also have Home Depot. I hope that tells you enough. I REALLY appreciate that you will even entertain helping me!!!

Rockpro, I have no doubt that experience IS the ultimate answer, and I believe I will catch on quickly, and every "handyman" I've asked locally shrugs me off as if they don't want to share their secrets. All I know is I want a fair price for the customer and for me. I know I will be high sometimes and low other times while getting started, but as I said above, I can't help but think there must be some general standards for every day type jobs. I've looked on line for information, but so far haven't really found anything helpful for THIS area.

Chandler, believe me I know this didn't quite fall the way I would have liked it, but this is how it fell, and I have to hold onto my faith that I am on the right path. You are right, if I don't work, I don't eat. Luckily, I am already busy enough that I don't have time to worry about that quite yet. I will look into the contractor thing though and see if I can find someone willing.

Thanks to ALL of you!!!!

Noguru: Of all the types of construction work, the types you have stated are the hardest to estimate. You seem to gave the WANT TOO to succeed. At least your willing to try. There is alot to this and a lifetime of learning, but lets start off with the basics first. The very first thing you must do is make yourself a very complete list of your expenses each month. List everything, and how much it costs you. Every monthly expense including food, gas, etc. Leave no stone unturned. After you have compiled your list, add it all up and you will have a number. What ever this number is, it is very important. This is the number that will make or break you. This is the number that most never figure, and that is one of the reasons alot of would be contractors go broke. Now, take this number and divide it by 22. This number is the second most important number. The reason you use 22 is because there is an average of 22 working days or week days in a month. YOu do not count weekends or holidays. 22 is the number. Now take this number and divide it by 8. 8 is the number of average working hours in a day.
Here is an example. Your monthly costs are $2200. divide this by 22 which equals 100 which means it takes $100 a day for you to break even. Now divide this by 8 which gives you $12.50 an hour. So for this example, you would have to make a minimum of $12.50 per hour clear in order just to break even. This is why it is so important to be accurate and honest with yourself with these numbers. Now with this said, I want you to do as I have said. Read this carefully, and do the math and then reply, and we will go to step number 2. I do not need to know the numbers, only that you have honestly in your own mind obtained them. Talk to you soon.

Okay Jack. I have that number.

Noguru: Good for you. You have your number. Now I will just say one more thing about your number. If you incure more debt, you must raise your number. If you pay off debt and it goes away, you will reduce your number. This number will move up and down every few months, so be sure to keep up with it. The next item I will briefly touch on is tools. You probably have some tools already, but in buying new tools, do not buy cheap tools. You get what you pay for. If you buy cheap, you will get cheap, and cheap tools will alwaqys break down when you need them the most. Thats Murphy's Law.
I always buy the best on the market, and I very seldom have tool problems.
Now lets start with estimating. There are several different types of estimates, and you need to be familar with each kind. Estimate 1 is where you give one estimate for the whole job. For instance the job will be $500.
This includes your labor, materials, profit, and expenses. In this type of estimate you give one estimate for the whole job to the homeowner. Estimate 2. This is a labor only estimate. You give the homeowner an estimate for only your labor. The homeowner buys all the materials and everything else needed for the job. With this kind of estimate, it is important to tell the homeowner, that if you run out of materials or supplies they must replenish them at once.
Any delay on their part will result in an additional labor cost to them for your down time. These are a pretty good type of estimate and I find in many cases that I will run and get whatever else I need and the homeowner reimburses for them immediately. Estimate 3. This is an estimate where you list the materials and labor on one estimate, but separate them. Materials are $x.00, and labor is $Y.00. Homeowners like these kind of estimates because it shows the breakout of labor and materials. I do alot of these estimates but you have to be really careful that you do not leave something out. When doing these kinds of estimates I always make a detailed material list for myself. Right down to the screws. That way I don't forget something.
We will stop at this point for now. you read this, digest this and come back and let me know your ready for the next phase. Have a good day.

Jack, may I ask what brand you recommend as far as tools go? I guess I'd be inclined to go with DeWalt or Makita, but would like to know what you consider the best on the market.

I understand the three types of quote. I have actually used all three at one time or another.

I've been having a really hard time getting on this website, but I'm ready for more words of wisdom from Jack! :)

Noguru: Sorry I am late in getting back to you. It has been a long week with 18 hour days for 6 days straight. So I am taking a few minutes to answer your letter, then back to it. In your last letter, you asked about what brand of tools I use. I do not give my brand on this forum, since it would not be fair to some advertisers. But, in your last post, you named two brands, and if you would look in my tool trailers, you would see those two brands. Now, on to estimating. In your original letter, you noted that you liked sheetrocking, painting, wallpaper, etc. Lets just start out with sheetrock. This is probably the hardest to estimate, even for seasoned contractors. In talking about sheetrock estimating, there is one important thing to remember. Sheetrocking is one thing, tapeing and mudding is something else, texturing is still something different. As a rule, sheetrockers do not tape and mud. However, there are some exceptions. I do both. Sheetrockers will set their rates depending on several things. Their rates can range from 35 cents a square foot, to 50 cents a square foot. Their rate depends on usually two things. Their hourly number (which we spoke of), and how fast they can hang it and the conditions under which they are working. If its new construction, you will usually see bids anywhere from 35 cents to 40 cents a square foot. On big jobs like hospitals, large commercial buildings and such, you will see the rates go up to around 50 cents a square foot. A normal sheet has 32 sq feet in it, (4 x 8) and at 35 cents a sq. ft that would be $11.20 a sheet. Sometimes this goes fast, but sometimes very slow. It depends on how many windows, doors, and electrical outlets there are. It also depends on if you are hanging it on a ceiling or walls. So you can see that if you are doing new construction, and have a fast crew, you can make some good money very fast. Now, if you only have one helper, you will be slower, so you may want to raise your sq ft price. Now, doing remodeling, or patch work, the sq footage method ususally does not work very well. In remodeling or patching as it is called, things will go alot slower. You need to look at the existing walls, windows, electrical outlets baseboards, ceiling trim boards, etc. You look for anything that will slow you down. If there are alot of things to slow you down, you have to raise your price. One of the big things to look for is what is on the existing walls. It is existing sheetrock, or lathe or plaster, or ?
Does it need to come off ? What about windows. Will it make your trim stick out too far ? All of these things can make or break you. Usually on remodels or patch work, I bid it by the job, and not the square ft. Here is an example.
Lets say that Mrs X needs one sheet of sheetrock replaced on her 9' high living room ceiling. So you say 35 cents a sq ft. That would be $11.20 plus materials. Never forget that your hanging price does not include any materials of any kind. Anyway, you start in. You first must take down the ceiling trim, existing ceiling covering, maybe a ceiling light, lay down your tarps etc. 9' high probably a rolling scaffold, you may have to move some furniture etc. After 1 hour of work you are ready to start. So you now you hang the sheetrock, put the trim back up, put up the light, clean up your mess. 1 more hour. Your done. Well you can see that your $11.20 an hour that you bid has resulted in $5.60 an hour.
So you can see that 35 cents/sq ft was too low. You lost money. At 50 cents a sq. st, is still only $8.00 an hour. Your still losing money. This is why I estimate by the job. Now in our example I would have probably said
ABOUT $100 which includes the materials. Knowing sheetrock is only about $8.00 a sheet, and the job still takes 2 hours, That leaves with about $90.00 after materials divided by 2 hours gives you $45.00 an hour. Alot better then $11.20 an hour. As a rule, home owners do not understand per sq ft prices.
But they do understand a by the job price. Now, the sheetrock has not been mudded or taped. Here again another estimate. Tapers also go by sq footage. They usually start around 40 cents a sq ft. and go up from there. I know alot of very good ones in the 50 cent range. Small jobs can go up to 70 cents a sq ft. Again I bid small jobs and remodels by the job. In taping it will require more materials, and several trips back to complete the job. Again with our example, I would probably say $100 for the taping and mudding. I would just sent 1 guy over to do that. Now texturing again is another step.
I would probably say $50 to texture. So for the full job it would be $250.00
It is very important when visiting with the home owner to ask them if they want the sheetrock taped and textured. I always ask and most say yes, so I just add it on and give them one price. I never them them a firm price. I always say about. I say it may be a little higher, or it may be a little lower.
If the homeowner is nice and they treat my guys good, I always knock of $10 or $15.00 and just tell them it was a little less then my estimate. Homeowners like that. They always call me back. I have one crew that all they do are small jobs. Another thing I never do is give a per hour rate. Homeowners that ask for a $ per hour rate, are usually tight with the dollar and are trying to get a job done cheap. If I get the (I want it cheap trick thrown at me) I always give them a high bid. I am not cheap, nor do I work cheap, but we are very good. Also, if you are being paid by the hour, the homeowner does not understand you stopping to rest, or whatever. They think you should work like a machine. We will stop here for now. You digest this and get back to me, and we will go to estimating 103. Have a good day.

Jack, never ever apologize for not getting back to me quicker. You have NO idea how much I appreciate the time you DO give to me. You do not have to give me the time of day, yet you are going above and beyond.

I appreciate the spelled out example of the sheetrocking. It really does help.

This coming Wednesday night a woman wants me to come look at her kitchen counter tile. She wants the grout removed and redone. I was wondering if you have any good tips on removing grout? I've done a little and it is gruesome using a grout saw. I know you can buy a diamond wheel for a dremel, and I'd guess that goes a lot quicker, but I do not have a dremel and really didn't want to have to buy one.

So, where are you located Jack? I wish I could find a "Jack" here who would be willing to share his secrets. :)

Have a great week!! And some how, some day, I will repay you, or pay forward for your kindness to me!

Noguru: Just remember that on Wednesday night, a estimate is only an estimate. Maybe we will take a few minutes and talk about it. First of all what do we know about the estimate. It is on Wed night, it is for regrouting a tile counter top, re grouting is not a fun job, it is labor intensive, and it is what is called piddly work. You also know that it will take 3 or 4 trips back to finish the job. Just knowing these facts, you already know that it will not be a low estimate. Having done some already, you know that a grout saw is not the way to go. The only way you can make money on a job like this is to have the correct tools. When you give the homeowner her estimate back, have the cost of a dremel tool and diamond blades included in it. Now if you get the job, you have a dremel. If you don't get the job nothing lost. When you go to your estimate, do not take anything with you that will get you in trouble. Take only a small spiral note pad, and a tape measure. Do not take a calculator with you. This will get you in trouble. Alot of contractors lose estimates because they take too many things with them. Like calculators, catalogs, forms, etc. The homeowner wants a price right now, but do not give it to her. If she asks, tell her you will figure it out and get back to her in a day or so. Remember, this is your company so you need to treat it like a company. You also want to remember, that there are some jobs you will not want to take. Never forget this. If this is one of those jobs, give a very high estimate. That way if you do get it, it won't be so bad. Also remember, that the less you say during an estimate the better. The real key is to listen, and listen carefully. One of the greatest gripes homeowners have, is that the contractor did not listen to them. You want to do the job just as the homeowner wants it done. It should not make any difference to you, since you don't have to live there, but they do. If they ask if you work by the job or sq ft, tell them you work by the job, and it is determined by how many inches of grout that will be removed and replaced. They probably won't ask any more questions along these lines since they probably have not ever heard of a price figured by the inch. Also when your there, make sure they do or do not want a backsplash re-grouted also. Also keep an open eye for anything that will slow you down. Oh one more thing, make sure you put your round trip mileage in your costs, and do it for 4 times, since you will probably go back 4 times.

There you go off to your estimate. I know you will do a good job, and we will continue with our next lesson after you get back to me. Good Luck

My appointment was cancelled for tonight. She had to reschedule to next Wednesday. Better for me any way as busy as I am this week. Thanks for the tips though. Pencil, measuring tape, and notebook are all I bring for sure!

Noguru: Yes, estimates do get canceled, but that's just how it is. Better luck next week. Today, lets talk about painting estimates. Bascially, there are three kinds of painters. Those that do commercial buildings. Those that paint exteriors of houses, garages, apts, or barns. Those that paint the interior of residentil houses and such. As a rule, painters usually only paint in
the area they like the most. For instance, exterior painters may paint interior rooms, and vice versa. But, each type requires certain tools, and once you have your tools, you tend to stay in your area. We will skip commercial painting, since I doubt you would be doing much of that. I am guessing you will be doing mostly interior painting, so lets start there. Interior painting is another one of those areas that can be under estaimated, and very easily I might add. When estimating an interior job, you should always start out by looking up at the top of the walls. Is there trim or not. If there is trim, this will need to be addressed with the homeowner. They will probably want it painted also. Trim is easy to paint, but the prep time is long. Next look around the walls for plug ins, windows, doors, and anything else that will require taping. Lastly look down at the floor and the walls. Is there floor trim or not. What is the flooring ? Carpet, hardwood, vinyl, etc. You need to make notes of all of these. Then step back and take an overall look at the whole room. Now, there are painters who will measure everything. If the rooms are very large this is good, but for the normal rooms I personally would not take the time. Look at the whole room, and look at the bare wall space which will be painted, and give an educated guess about how long it will take to paint it. Oh, one thing I forgot was look at the wall texture. There are not many rooms that cannot be painted in 8 hours. However, the prep time to paint may take along time. For instance, I have seen rooms that took 2 days to prep, and 4 hours to paint. So in estimating give particular notice to the prep time. Here again your magic hourly number comes into play. When putting your estimate together figure up your hours to paint, and prep. You will probably under estimate both, so when you get it figured up, throw in another 3 or 4 hours. These hours plus your hourly number, will give you your estimate. Do not forget to throw in your mileage to and from also.
So in painting, you usually give your estimate in Time plus Materials. This is a labor only estimate. They will want to know what the materials will cost, so you can shop out these prices, and give them an about figure. Painting materials prices change very quickly, so what they are today, will probably be different next week. Remember when doing the materials, besides the paint, figure in rollers, paint pans, plastic sheets, sand paper, paint thinner, turpentine or mineral spirits, etc. everything. Even a couple of small brushes.
If the current walls are dark colored and they want to paint them a lighter color, you may have to paint it first with stain blocker to keep the dark color from coming through. When pricing and buying paint, if you are doing the buying, only buy from a paint store like Sherwin Williams or Benjamin Moore, etc. Do not buy from a Home Improvement Store, expecially if they are having a paint sale. Many of these paints have been sitting in railroad boxcars. Some of them for months (cheap storage place for products). If they have froze, the paint will separate. It is a chemical reaction that takes place, and even mixing it will never get it back to how it was originally. You will not know this, but big box stores are famous for this. When painted on, it looks fine, but a few months later, the paint may begin to flake, or fade.
In any of your jobs, you should have a box of the good 50 gal. black garbage bags. A clean job is a happy job. Also in painting, buy a box of those kitchen bags about 12" wide. If you have to stop for some reason, you can just stick your roller in a bag, and it will stay nice and moist. Also, always have rolls of paper towels with you on any job. When your done,
with the job, throw away your rollers, paint pan liners, and cheap brushes. These are throw away items, they cost you more to clean them they cost originally. Remember, Time is Money. I think we will stop here for now. After you are familar with this, we will talk about exterior painting. Have a good weekend.

Wow! Great tips on the painting Jack! I did not have an email telling me I had a reply again so just now getting this. You really cover it all! I love the tip on the plastic bag, and it does make sense that buying new rollers, etc. would be cheaper in the long run.

I did finally go to estimate that grout removal job. The grout lines are 1/16th so I am no quoting it. I can't imagine it even being possible to remove the grout without damaging a lot of the tiles. If it had been 1/8th or more at least it might have been doable. I recommended she consider removing the tile and putting a whole new coutertop and backsplash in. We'll see.

I'm looking forward to exterior painting tips from you. Outside looks to be extremely hard to estimate.

Hope your week is going well!!

Noguru: Before I get started, let me say that you did the right thing by walking away from that tile job. I can also see that you have learned a good lesson here. Just because someone wants an estimate, does not mean you have to give them one. Good Job.

Now for exterior painting. In exterior painting, there are two types of buildings. One story buildings, and those of 2 or more stories. The higher up you go, the more equipment you need. The more equipment you need, the more work it takes. The more work it takes the more you charge. For instance. Lets say the house is 25 feet up to the eves. Are you going to work off of ladders or scaffolding. If ladders, how are you going to get them there. In a pickup or on a trailer. This is an example of more equipment. Many starting out contractors forget about getting the materials to the job site. We will just deal with house painting here. As I mentioned before many contractors will only paint 1 story houses. This is because of the equipment needed. You will have to make this decision yourself. Usually house painters only paint houses. But it never hurts to paint one once in awhile. It keeps you humble.

In estimating a house, you want to give very careful attention to the siding, trim around windows and doors, fascia and soffits. Be on the lookout for rotten spots or spots that have been painted over since the rest of the house
was painted. Also be on the lookout for large spots of caulk. These are signs of problems with the wood. Usually rotten spots that have been covered up. These areas should be brought up to the home owner, and let them know that it may cost a little more to fix these areas before they can be painted.

Many contractors power wash the house before starting. This is fine, however, do not use real high pressure because you could blow apart dry rotted wood, then you have to fix it. In preparing the estimate, I would measure the dimensions of the house. 20 x 40, or 36 x 72, etc. Some waste alot of time in the measuring. Take your wall for instance 20 feet x 8 feet the height which gives you 160 sq. feet. Do not deduct for windows or doors.
On the gable ends take the siding at the eves and count how many pieces there or up to the peak. Now take the side dimension 20 feet times the height to the peak 10 feet which gives you 200 sq feet, and take 1/2 of that which is 100 sq feet. It should only take about 15 to 20 minutes to measure the whole house. Now you will have a total sq. footage. You might make some notes on how many windows and doors are on each side but don't measure them unless they are something goofy like an arched window. Take note of where the power lines, phone lines etc enter the home and any other little thing like that. You now have your square footage to paint. We will stop for now and after you digest this come back and we will talk about the dollars and common sense. Have a good day.

There sure is a lot to consider. I had a call last night and I am going to give an estimate next week on painting a house exterior, so this is going to come in very handy for me.

How difficult is it to replace windows? A business associate of mine needs some windows replaced and gave me my choice of doing the work, or hiring and supervising the installation. I would like to do it myself because I could use the money, but I'm thinking it might be better to watch them since I have never done this, and use it as a learning experience. I'm the type that is not afraid to do some research and try new things, but this type of job seems like it could be "harder than it looks". What do you think?

Thanks Jack!

Noguru:
Sorry to be late in getting back to you. Been on the road with very long days, and bad motel beds. Anyway, back to estimating on painting the outside of houses. Painting houses is a very quick way to go broke unless your right on top of it. There are several things that are important to remember when do a painting estimate. When painting the exterior of houses you have to take into consideration that you will be going over the enitre house at least 3 times and possibly 4 times. This all takes time, and remember, time is money. Remember your little money chart we worked up for you. The first time you go over the house you will be scraping, caulking cracks, and sanding. Sometimes houses have several coats of paint on them, which will take more time. The second time you go over the house, you will be applying the primer coat. The third time you will be giving the house the first coat of paint. Now, depending on the condition, you may very well be giving two coats of paint. Now, after scraping and sanding, if the house is very old and the wood is dry, you may also have to put on a coat of pure linseed oil. If the linseed oil is absorbed almost immediately, you may have to apply two coats of it. Many painters paint the window and house trim when they paint on the primer. Some paint the trim last, but if you do that, there is a very good chance you will get trim paint on the new house paint. This is a very bad deal. If I were just starting out, I would stay away from 2 story houses. 2 story houses require taller ladders, and more equipment. I will mention it again, if you are to buy the paint, buy a very good quality paint. Probably something in the $25.00 a gallon range. Also use very good primer. Probably in the $18.00 range. Buy good brushes and clean them all the time. Camel hair are very good. You will need several sizes. Get good equipment. Now for the pricing. When looking at a house, take a good look at trouble places. Wood under windows, soffits, fascia boards, look for holes in the siding and other such things which you will need to repair or whatever. Look at the condition of the wood. How long since it has been painted. You can measure the house or just step it off. Its your choice. You don't need to measure the exact square footage, but you just want to be kind of close. Then ask yourself this question. How long will it take me to give this house one good coat of paint. Remember you can't paint a house in a day. Now multiply this by how many times you are going to go over the house. If you think you can paint it in 3 days, then use 9 days at a minimum because you will have to do three things to the house, scraping, priming, and painting. Allow 1 to 2 days for trim. Your first house will be a real learning experience. After that you will have experience to draw from. Many experienced painters will spray clean a house first, but if you are not really experienced with a spray machine, you can ruin alot of siding in a hurry. There are alot of little things I have left out, but this will get you started. Let me know about the windows. We can cover that also.
For your information, I sent you a PM message. When you read this if you look in the upper right hand corner of this thread and you will see a little box that says Welcome Noguru. Click on the private message underline, and it will take you to it. For others who are following this thread, I sent Noguru a pm and asked her some questions about her business. By knowing a little more, I felt I could help her more. You have not missed a thing.

Thanks Jack! Sorry it took ME so long to respond, but sometimes I just don't get those emails telling me I have a response to a post.

Good paint, good brushes, and lot's of time. Got ya! In this case I will not be supplying the paint, but I did mention to the potential customer how much longer the good paint will last, etc. I have not done the estimate yet as the husband has been going thru chemo treatments so I am just waiting for the call.

I must admit I was going to use a power sprayer. The one I have is only 2500 PSI and I believe I can use it well without doing any damage. Though I have not used it on a house, I have used it on wood decks. So, tell me, might I still have to scrape, or will the sprayer probably get it all? (is this PSI powerfull enough?) My big question on this subject is about the scrapings. I painted my own house once and scraped and did nothing with the scrapings on the ground. Is that an acceptable practice or am I going to have to clean up the ground?

I did respond to your pm, just so you know, in case it doesn't show.

So, can you just give me a ballpark figure on what a house would be painted for? I'm just trying to get a feel for if I'm looking at $500 or $2000 so that I'm somewhere close. I don't want to over estimate or under estimate too badly. I know this is a medium sized home and about half brick so only half to paint, but trim and windows all around. I don't want to have a $500 bid when it should be closer to $1500 or the other way around. I had a friend tell me that she had just her trim done about 10 years ago, and it cost her $2000 just for that, but that seems very high to me. Of course I don't know what all it involved.

Well, those are my questions for today. As always, thank you SO much for taking the time to "teach" me some things. This is known as good "karma" and I hope it returns to you 10 fold!

Noguru:
2500 psi is plenty of pressure. After spraying a house, you may still have some scraping to do, but the spray will blow most of the loose paint off.
You indicated paint scrapings on the ground. Yes, you have to clean them up. I would lay down a tarp, and tape it to the wall. That way your scrapings will get caught and be easy to clean up. You can get a small tarp and just move it along.

As for your estimate. It would have to be a very little house to do it for $2000. Have not seen the house, but your description, with lots of windows, I would think you would be looking in $3500 and up range. If it were a 900 sq ft one story bungulow, maybe $2500.

Since we are on painting, I got a call today from a lady who asked if I would give her an estimate on painting her house. I told her we don't paint houses, but I know of a good painter who does. She gave me her name and phone number and said for him to call her. I reconginized the name immediately. I did a complete house remodel for them 3 years ago. She still owes me $1000.
I will tell my friend, and he will get my $1000 for me. Funny how things work out. Have a good day.

The reason I asked about clean up is because someone I know who paints thought I was crazy putting down a tarp when I painted a house trim a while back. It seemed logical to me, but since he paints for a living I thought maybe I was wasting my time with that. Now I know I was right.

As for the estimate, thank you for the ball park figure. I had NO clue it would cost quite that much. Inside painting I can come close, but outside I would have been way off I'm sure. At least that gives me a much better idea where I need to be in my estimate. I'm going to measure my own house today and give myself an estimate. Just to get a feel for this.

Forget about my window question. I am just going to supervise that job.

Good for you on getting your money from that woman who owes you! See, you give off good "karma" and it comes back to you!

Hi Jack, what, if anything, can you tell me about a tile roof? I have to admit I did not even know you COULD tile a roof. A woman wants her trim painted which is over a tiled roof and of course I know tile can be delicate, but will walking on it carefully be any risk? I need to call in the morning with a quote, so if there is any chance you can get back to me on this tonight, I would really appreciate it. I don't want to quote it if there are any big risks at damaging her roof by walking on it.

Thanks Jack!

Noguru:
Sounds like things are going ok for you. Tile roofs you ask. There are 2 types of tile roofs. One is the spanish style. This is the most popular and the one most think about when they hear tile roof. As a rule tile roofs are pretty strong. You can walk on them, but I would wear deck shoes or a soft soled tennis shoes. Tile usually breaks when something is droped on it. A hard hit rather then a soft pressure. Dropping your hammer would be a bad thing. I would give her the quote and get your paint brush ready. Just pretend you are walking on eggs. You will be just fine. Have a good evening.

Thank you Jack! That's pretty much what I was thinking since I know floor tile is pretty tough, I figured this to be the same, but this woman made it sound like I'd have to grow wings in order to do this paint job! LOL

Hope things are greaaaaaaat for you!!!

It is possible she has cement shingles. Alot of people call it tile. If it is cement shingles, you should get pads of 3" foam rubber to move around on.
Cement shingles can be brittle. Just thought I would throw this in. Have a good day.

And right you were! They were cement shingles. I managed to put together some walking pads and also learned to only walk on the front of the shingle horizontally. Paint job done and no broken shingles. Whew!!!! :)

Thanks Jack!

Noguru:

Your very welcome.