Patching and Plastering - somewhat complicated question about matching texture

My husband and I (complete novices!) are remodeling a very small (9' deep x 4' wide) bathroom. We've removed a 3' deep x 4' wide shower stall at the back of the room and are replacing it with a 3 pc fiberglass surround and glass doors. The problem is the house had a soffit built down from the ceiling to about 5" above the shower door that was then tiled. We've removed the (ugly, moldy, steam-holding) soffit but now have an opening into the attic where it used to be. Clearly we have to put new greenboard (or should it be cement board?) over the top of the new shower walls and on the ceiling there. Assuming we are capable of doing that work, the real problem is that the existing ceiling has a "swirl" texture, that looks like overlapping scales. Can that be matched above the shower? If it turns out we don't have the artistic talent needed to do that, is it possible to simply sand down the existing ceiling (the remaining 6'x4' of it) and then retexture the entire thing so the new part of the ceiling won't show? And should we texture before we prime, or after?

I have NO idea what I'm really doing here, so any help at all will be greatly appreciated! ie - types of materials, how-to's, brands to buy, etc. Thank you so much!

I have seen bathroom ceilings just plain ol sheetrocked.

Regarding the swirl texture...I know what you are taliking about. It has a scallop look. I have done this with a wallpaper type brush, but they may have a better tool for this. My job came out fairly decent.

When they originally did that swirl, they started at one particular END of the room and also one particular SIDE of that room.This is what created the particular lap pattern. IF you have any hopes at all of literally having it blend in, you almost have to hope that in your continuation, that whoever did the swirl pattern had started at the other end of the room. IF it started on the end by your shower, you are kind of you-know-whated. Because not only will the overlap be wrong, but the chance of you starting at the shower and working back toward the door? will make it quite unlikely you wil wind up with the exact size and straight hand-fan swirl pattern.

Can yu sand off this swirl. Not hardly. Sanding off paint is very hard to do. You'd be better off skimcoating the ceiling with ready mix jpoint compound.

You have 2 choices on the ceiling. You can fill the hole to the attic with drywall - it doesn't need to be green [moisture resistant] the paint should be sufficent protection. I agree matching the texture would be hard to achieve [but it can be done] It would probably be simplier to skim coat the whole ceiling and either have a slick finish or apply new texture.

If your bath is 4' wide or less [actually 48.5" would be ok] it may be easier to hang and finish a new piece of drywall over the old.

Some say to prime before texture but I've never seen any problems with texturing raw drywall AND the texture needs to be primed before painting.

Thank you for your replies. I looked at it again doing more demo tonight and, sure enough, they started at the shower and worked toward the door. Virtually no chance of getting it matched I think. The room itself is right about 50" wide, wouldn't you know. So it looks like we're going to be learning to skim coat the whole thing.

Or maybe hiring a drywall contractor.

Skim coating isn't all tha difficult. Scrape what you can of the old texture off. Mixing the joint compound will make it flow better - I preffer to thin it a little too. Any mistakes you make WILL sand off/down although sanding j/c is rather dusty. Personally I'd rather apply an extra coat of j/c than have to do extra sanding.

A real lumber yard (not the boxes) can supply drywall in 53" wide sheets...

I think you mean 54" wide drywall. I've never seen it a lumber yard but it should be available at any drywall supply house.

We have a large kitchen ceiling, probably 36' x 10'. Previous owner bumped a wall out so the ceiling fan and light fixtures weren't in the middle of the room anymore; we had them moved to center and patched holes. Also had to cut out some ceiling to run wire to a light fixture.
Suffice to say, nothing matches now. It's not popcorn/styrafoam ceiling testure. It's sprayed texture with a coat of paint over the texture. I can't really scrap it off due to the top coat of paint over the texture. I've thought of using a palm sander to flatten the texture out (it's not a deep texture but it's not orange peel or knock-down either) but that would be a lot of work. Would it be easier to just skim coat the whole thing with mud and then use a sander to even it out? And then, once it has a more uniform, flat texture, hire someone to spray and do a knock-down texture on it? I'm really trying to make the right choice here in terms of saving effort. I'm pretty good with a trowel and mud-have all the sheet rock tools needed.
What say you all who may have been down this road? Have also thought of putting 1/4" sheetrock over the old ceiling and starting over but that would increase labor and costs. Thanks for your input! P38

Welcome to the forums P38

I wouldn't use a power sander on either the paint or any new joint compound. J/c sands easy [also makes a lot of dust :eek: ]

If you are unable to match the current texture [most finishers should be able to do so] I'd skim coat the entire ceiling and either leave it slick or texture the entire ceiling.

Did you save any of the cut out pieces so you can take one with to a home or building center and get opinion on what kind of mud and or tool to duplicate the texture within reason? Flat paint will show up less imperfections if the match is not exactly perfect.

10 x 36? That's rather an unusual shape, eh? Like a super long galley kitchen?

Yes, the kitchen is really long. Actually there was a woodburning stove and seating area at one end of the room and kitchen with island on other end of room. I didn't save any of the cutouts so can't match it up at a drywall pro store. Also, the cutout for the wiring for the new light fixture had drywall mesh tape and skim coat over it. I think I like the idea of skim coating the best. I can always do a section at a time and stop and do it over several days &/or weekends and clean up my mess as I go. I loaned someone my hawk so I'll have to get a new one. I've got a flat trowel but have also gone to a seminar on Japanese plastering--talk about masters! They have, over the centuries, developed some flexible trowels of all types (they are pricy too). Anyone with a suggestion on the specific type of trowel I should use for the skim coating? Also, is my theory of doing it one section at a time, over time valid? Will I be able to blend in the stop and start edges of each section? Thought that once I did the skim coat, I could rent one of the motorized sheetrock mud sanders with a vacuum attachment (they are about $25 per day). Also, if I did it one section at a time, I could use a short ladder rather than renting stilts. Any suggestions would be helpful and appreciated. P38

Consider that people making various sheetrock additions or repairs have to adjoin previous work, and they accomplish this without anyone noticing the stopping and starting points. Keep the word 'featheredge" in mind.

I like to towel/skim in a backcoat method. You pull the broadknife or trowel of your choice (I like a 10 or 12 inch broadknife) back into the wet mud. In the final stages, the coat is so thin that it is already drying as you do this and you can't see where your tool let go.

I have done large wall repairs joining sheetrock to plaster where you cannot see where I did the work without sanding! I recently went over ceiling swirl texture, no sanding! IF you see an edge where the adjoinment is, simply featheredge coat that abuttment, rather than sand.

And if you do see a LITTLE bit of flaws here and there, use either a texture roller or go to a heavier nap roller and lay the paint on thicker, as this will create a slight stipple. Sure beats sanding. Anything beats overhead sanding.


But you still may want to consider even cutting out a small piece more of the ceiling to take with and show someone.

Thanks ecman! I understand you'd use a 10-12 flat knife rather than a flat trowel. Also pull the flat knife toward the side that has the mud on it. This should be a real test of skill and determination!

Actually it is quite easy because you skim tight across your texture. It is easier to skim twice, tight, than gob it on once and have to sand! When skimming twice, chances are the knife will chatter off the texture and leave ridges. So the next skim coat you skim crossways to the first time. If you skim a third time, you can go diagonally.

It is the sheer amount of what you have to do is the only issue.

No way to fudge just repair texturing, eh? To where you can feather the texture so that a spot just doesn't jump out at you?

ecman51-No way to fudge. The cutout and patching of the wiring for the new light above the kitchen island is about 3 feet long and 4 inches wide of skim coated sheet rock mud. I have a roller that I've kept for years that might hide everything. It has loops of plastic all over it that, when loaded with mud, leaves stalagtites down from the ceiling. The stalagtites are about 1/4" long. When dried and you paint over it, the peaks of the stalagtites get knock off a bit. The only alternative to make this ceiling uniform is
1. skim coating-and it looks like it would take a least 2 coats a 90 degree angles to each other judging from your comments.
2. the stalagtite roller
3. what do you think of re-rocking the whole thing with 1/4" rock over the existing 1/2" rock and have a finisher tape and mud and texture the new 1/4 rock?
I guess I could try a 4x4' section of ceiling and skim coat it twice at 90 degree angles as you've suggested and see what happens and then decide to do the whole thing that way or to add the 1/4 rock.
I could try the stalagtite roller on a piece of drywall scrap that i can screw to the floor joists in the basement and trial that. Decisions, decisions! Also, at the end of the room, where the wood stove was taken out, a 4/8 sheet of rock was removed due to damage and stain so that end of the kitchen has a new, untextured piece of sheetrock with the abutting edge feathered next to the old, textured ceiling.

Skim coating is a lot less work than hanging and finishing new drywall :)

I feel sorry for you. I can't see doing lots of overhead work any more. Been there, done that. I like working on appliances, electrical and plumbing repairs type stuff now. No shovels; no extension ladders, no roofs, not breathing bad dust, etc. :) [Let's just say I've cut way back on all that stuff but still do some of all those things.]

Is this texture you have something where you could scrape off the tips at least and then paint over that and what you fudge repair and use a roller that does the stalagtites business?

I know that if this was me, by hook or crook I'd try to match it and flat paint it.

As far as hanging new rock goes; IF you are up to something like that, I'm not keen on 1/4 inch on ceiling as it will probably sag in between joists. You'd have to rely on adhesive and I don't know it I'd trust that. I'd go with thicker rock and rent one of the lifts where you set the sheetrock on the holder and then tilt it so it is now flat and then crank it up to the ceiling where it then will pin it to the ceiling for you, while you screw. At my home center you can rent one. Also at sheetrock supply houses.

Fortunately, this is the only room in the house that needs the ceiling retextured. Think I'll try my plastic loop roller on a scrap piece of sheetrock and see what happens. If I get a lot of texture with it, then I think it will cover over all "sins" of the kitchen ceiling. If not, then I'm going to try skim coating. At least with skim coating, I can do a 4x4' section at a time and stop for a day and keep doing that so I don't wear out my neck all at once. Thanks guys for your posts and helping me with this brain teaser for me.

It's really not a brain teaser. It's just plain work. Overhead work is the worst. But it can help develop strong powerful shoulders. :)

Working overhead is a lot easier with a scaffold than a ladder. Working overhead is a lot easier when the scaffold is set so the worker's head just clears the ceiling by the thickness of his hair or cap.
With a trowel it's easier to push the trowel and mud than to pull it. That is it's easier on the muscles. It is a harder technique but worth learning.