Furniture, Wood and Cabinetry Finishing - What am I doing Wrong??
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Projects4Mom
03-09-07, 10:37 PM
I have done a lot of staining over the years and I seem to have a problem with making the finish darker or adding extra coats. Some books say while the stain is wet to add addtional stain if you want it darker. When I do this, it just lifts the 1st coat and then I will have a spot that I have to keep messing with it until I have a mess! What am I doing wrong I have even waited for it to dry, but the fresh stain seems to work like paint thinner and remove the first coat of stain. Please tell me what I am doing wrong??
Just Bill
03-10-07, 05:14 AM
My best advice is not to read the books, but read the label on the can. Follow the manufacturers directions. But once the wood is sealed, color changes with additional coats are slow. It usually works better to put on a heavy coat initially and let it dry longer.
XSleeper
03-10-07, 06:21 AM
What are you doing wrong? It sounds to me like you are not following the directions to wipe off excess stain.
In my experience, I've found that leaving stain on longer, or adding more stain rarely makes the color darker. When you don't wipe excess stain off, the color will be streaky and the grain hidden- it just leaves a thick film of stain on the surface which does make the wood dark, but as soon as you brush on any finish or try to add more stain on, it will simply lift the last coat, just like paint thinner, as you have described.
Once you have stained wood, it rarely will accept other colors, but you could try a different color or brand of stain.
In my experience, I've found that leaving stain on longer, or adding more stain rarely makes the color darker. When you don't wipe excess stain off, the color will be streaky and the grain hidden- it just leaves a thick film of stain on the surface which does make the wood dark, but as soon as you brush on any finish or try to add more stain on, it will simply lift the last coat, just like paint thinner, as you have described.
Once you have stained wood, it rarely will accept other colors, but you could try a different color or brand of stain.
GregH
03-10-07, 06:37 AM
Projects4Mom,
Is this a water based stain?
Is this a water based stain?
marksr
03-10-07, 07:08 AM
If it is just 1-2 spots that aren't staining dark enough using sandpaper [with the direction of grain] while the stain is wet often helps to 'work' the stain in to that spot. If you want an overall darker stain, buy a darker stain to start with or tint your varnish/poly to add more color.
bclacquer
03-11-07, 07:26 AM
one issue you may is wood speicies. if it is Birch or maple, for example, it is difficult to get it dark, even and have integrity in the film. you can try breaking the grain with a 50/50 mix of water and alcohol, but the wood may blotch worse then had you not. You may also be prep sanding with too fine a grit. I have seen some people try to prep sand maple with 220 and then wonder why the wood will not take stain.
if you have a lot to do, you may want to consider spay-only products. I can get maple very very dark and even and still have film integrity but it is a multi step prcocess.
if you have a lot to do, you may want to consider spay-only products. I can get maple very very dark and even and still have film integrity but it is a multi step prcocess.
clockdaddy
03-11-07, 03:08 PM
So many people think that just because they put "dark cherry" stain on a piece of pine or birch then they're going to have something that resembles a true dark cherry. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
A whole variety of considerations affect the color and depth (darkness) of stains. First, the type of wood. Soft woods (i.e. pine, balsa, redwood and a host of others) accept stains more readily but the type of stain (i.e. water based, oil, dye etc.) also drastically affect the color and darkness of the wood.
It sounds like you are using an oil based stain. I'd take a guess you are trying to stain maple or poplar from the way you indicated the stain lifted even after drying.
Oil based stains are excellent for controlling the evenness of the stain application. Unfortunately oil based stains are comparatively difficult to give a really dark color by just a hand application.
Waterbased stains are somewhat easier to get the color darker because of the amount of pigment in the particular stains. It drys faster than oil base sold at the hardware and lumber stores so repeat applications can be done more quickly.
Dye based stains are difficult to wipe on and can instantly darken most wood quite dramatically. Frankly the hobbiest has no business using this product.
A couple of other considerations are whether the wood is virgin wood or are you trying to stain furniture being refinished.. Virgin wood will require a good sanding prior to attempting to stain it to a darker color.Furniture that has been stripped and you are staining will generally take stain more readily than new wood.
In either case, in order to achieve a dark color the wood should be thoroughly sanded (sanding with the grain of the wood) and it will be necessary to apply multiple layers of stain allowing adequate drying between coats.
If your project need to be darker than what this provides, it is best that you acquire the services of a good finisher.
Good Luck,
CD
A whole variety of considerations affect the color and depth (darkness) of stains. First, the type of wood. Soft woods (i.e. pine, balsa, redwood and a host of others) accept stains more readily but the type of stain (i.e. water based, oil, dye etc.) also drastically affect the color and darkness of the wood.
It sounds like you are using an oil based stain. I'd take a guess you are trying to stain maple or poplar from the way you indicated the stain lifted even after drying.
Oil based stains are excellent for controlling the evenness of the stain application. Unfortunately oil based stains are comparatively difficult to give a really dark color by just a hand application.
Waterbased stains are somewhat easier to get the color darker because of the amount of pigment in the particular stains. It drys faster than oil base sold at the hardware and lumber stores so repeat applications can be done more quickly.
Dye based stains are difficult to wipe on and can instantly darken most wood quite dramatically. Frankly the hobbiest has no business using this product.
A couple of other considerations are whether the wood is virgin wood or are you trying to stain furniture being refinished.. Virgin wood will require a good sanding prior to attempting to stain it to a darker color.Furniture that has been stripped and you are staining will generally take stain more readily than new wood.
In either case, in order to achieve a dark color the wood should be thoroughly sanded (sanding with the grain of the wood) and it will be necessary to apply multiple layers of stain allowing adequate drying between coats.
If your project need to be darker than what this provides, it is best that you acquire the services of a good finisher.
Good Luck,
CD