Flooring Tile - Need help with kitchen floor installation
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popricks
02-06-07, 01:58 PM
I have a 1950's style bungalow house
the kitichen measures out to be a 9'6"x 10' the floor joyces span from 1' thick cement wall to 7'x3" i beam steel beam is just under 12' there is a 2x10 doubled stacked on both sides with a ladder affect support across the load bearing wall. Is it possible to apply tile glue over a solid tong and groove floor with a subfloor that is 3/4"x6"
The kitchen floor has a 3/4''x6" sub floor (laid 45 degrees to floor Joyce’s), with a 3/4 tong and groove hardwood (perpendicular to the floor Joyce’s), an 1/8 lauan underlayment panel, and a felt back vinyl floor. On a 2"x10" 's 16" on center floor Joyce’s
1) What layers do I need to take off to install ceramic tile over?
2) What layer do I add if any?
3) What type of adhesive do I use? Thinset adhesive or mud?
4) If thinset what about tile cracking if original floor haves waves?
5) What does the trowel need to be notched at?
6) Why cant I just lay the tile over the hardwood floor it is solid to its sub floor?
7) Do I have to use a cement board as an initial layer?
8) What about a flexi-bond glue over the to tong and groove floor?
9) What type of floor surface do i need to acuire to achive a maxium bond with the glue besides flat and no creaks?
the kitichen measures out to be a 9'6"x 10' the floor joyces span from 1' thick cement wall to 7'x3" i beam steel beam is just under 12' there is a 2x10 doubled stacked on both sides with a ladder affect support across the load bearing wall. Is it possible to apply tile glue over a solid tong and groove floor with a subfloor that is 3/4"x6"
The kitchen floor has a 3/4''x6" sub floor (laid 45 degrees to floor Joyce’s), with a 3/4 tong and groove hardwood (perpendicular to the floor Joyce’s), an 1/8 lauan underlayment panel, and a felt back vinyl floor. On a 2"x10" 's 16" on center floor Joyce’s
1) What layers do I need to take off to install ceramic tile over?
2) What layer do I add if any?
3) What type of adhesive do I use? Thinset adhesive or mud?
4) If thinset what about tile cracking if original floor haves waves?
5) What does the trowel need to be notched at?
6) Why cant I just lay the tile over the hardwood floor it is solid to its sub floor?
7) Do I have to use a cement board as an initial layer?
8) What about a flexi-bond glue over the to tong and groove floor?
9) What type of floor surface do i need to acuire to achive a maxium bond with the glue besides flat and no creaks?
HeresJohnny
02-06-07, 02:41 PM
The vinyl, luan and hardwood have to go. You dont say what the 3/4" subfloor is. If its plywood or osb thats good. If its particle board then that has to go to. If you subfloor is plywood or osb, at a minimum you need to add 1/4" cement board or a membrane like scluter ditra or noble cis. If the subfloor is osb most around here wont like the membrane idea. If you can afford the height, it would be best to add another layer of 1/2" plywood before the cement board or membrane. More plywood is always better as it stiffens the floor between the joints. What is the unsupported span of those 2" x 10"s? Let us know what route you decide to take and ask lots of questions to keep yourself headed in the right direction. Thinset for the tile on floors.
popricks
02-07-07, 11:30 AM
i have updated the ?'s to be more specific hope that u can get back with about this problem
HeresJohnny
02-08-07, 09:59 AM
In the future, add a new post with all the new facts instead of changing the original. Im old and senile and cant remember what the original one said.
You cant tile over any type of dimensional wood, including the hardwood floors and the diagonal planking. This type of wood has lots of movement with the seasons and any tile will fail if installed directly to it. You need to remove everything but to the 3/4" t&g diagonal planking. You need to add at a minimum 1/2" exterior bc grade or better plywood over the planking. Your options from there are either 1/4" cement board or a membrane. If heights a concern, the membranes will be best for you.
If I understand you post correctly, you have 2" x 10" joists, 16" on center with a 12' unsupported span. Thats ok for ceramic tile. If your plans change to natural stone like marble, granite etc, then we have to talk some more.
As to trowel size, depends on what size and kind of tile you are installing. So tell us about the tile. As to type of thinset, that depends on if you decide to use cement board or a membrane, and maybe some other factors as well. All thinset and grout products that you should be using should be in powder form and mixed with water or an additive. DO NOT use any premixed thinsets or grouts.
Just to reinforce, there is no thinset or adhesive that you can use to bond ceramic tile directly to the planking or hardwood. Its a guaranteed failure.
And dont forget what I said about being old and senile.
You cant tile over any type of dimensional wood, including the hardwood floors and the diagonal planking. This type of wood has lots of movement with the seasons and any tile will fail if installed directly to it. You need to remove everything but to the 3/4" t&g diagonal planking. You need to add at a minimum 1/2" exterior bc grade or better plywood over the planking. Your options from there are either 1/4" cement board or a membrane. If heights a concern, the membranes will be best for you.
If I understand you post correctly, you have 2" x 10" joists, 16" on center with a 12' unsupported span. Thats ok for ceramic tile. If your plans change to natural stone like marble, granite etc, then we have to talk some more.
As to trowel size, depends on what size and kind of tile you are installing. So tell us about the tile. As to type of thinset, that depends on if you decide to use cement board or a membrane, and maybe some other factors as well. All thinset and grout products that you should be using should be in powder form and mixed with water or an additive. DO NOT use any premixed thinsets or grouts.
Just to reinforce, there is no thinset or adhesive that you can use to bond ceramic tile directly to the planking or hardwood. Its a guaranteed failure.
And dont forget what I said about being old and senile.
popricks
02-09-07, 08:29 AM
Thx for the heads up, I appreciate what u have said and the advice seems sound. But one thing that I have to tell u is that I have the, ¾ x 6" sub floor (laid 45 degrees to floor Joyce’s), with a ¾ tong and groove hardwood (perpendicular to the floor Joyce’s). So what u are saying that I have to remove the ¾ t-g floor up to the surface exposing the planked wood, then add a layer of exterior grade plywood (believing to be for moisture reasons), then lay a cement board or membranes over that.
I am planning to use the 12x12 ceramic tiles to kitchen
Hope to hear from u soon
I appreciated everything so far .The advice that was received here and other topics I read I very helpful, and look forward to the future projects with everyone. I will update often and let everyone know if I incur another problem
I am planning to use the 12x12 ceramic tiles to kitchen
Hope to hear from u soon
I appreciated everything so far .The advice that was received here and other topics I read I very helpful, and look forward to the future projects with everyone. I will update often and let everyone know if I incur another problem
HeresJohnny
02-09-07, 12:39 PM
I think you got it. Yes remove the hardwood down to the planking. Your adding the plywood over the planking because it is much more stable than the planking and will help to isolate movement of the floor structure from the tile. Then the membrane or the cement board.
You can start with a 1/4" notch trowel. Pull up a tile and see what kind of coverage you are getting. If its close to 100% coverage and you can get the tiles flat to one another thats good. If not, move up to a 1/4" x 3/8" notch trowel.
You can start with a 1/4" notch trowel. Pull up a tile and see what kind of coverage you are getting. If its close to 100% coverage and you can get the tiles flat to one another thats good. If not, move up to a 1/4" x 3/8" notch trowel.