Designing Kitchens and Bathrooms - Planning: Walls in Bathtub Area
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griffjj
12-08-06, 11:24 AM
Wow, what a great resource. I am in the process of re-modeling my bathroom and I stumbled onto this site a couple days ago. Since then I’ve already learned that I made a couple mistakes, so I’d like to outline my plan for the bathtub area and see if there is anything else I should be considering. I have completely gutted the room and am ready to begin construction.
The tub area has three walls: one exterior, one interior with plumbing, and one interior without plumbing. I plan to tile to a height of seven feet and paint the area above that on all three walls. So here is my plan for each of the three walls:
1. Exterior (tile): insulation with slits in kraft paper (already installed the insulation; didn’t know about the double vapor barrier issue), then 6 mil polyethylene sheets over studs, then 1/2" Hardibacker CBU, then thinset, then tile
2. Exterior (paint): insulation with slits in kraft paper, then 6 mil polyethylene sheets over studs, then 1/2" Hardibacker CBU, then primer, then paint
3. Interior with plumbing (tile): 1/2" Hardibacker CBU over studs, then thinset, then tile
4. Interior with plumbing (paint): 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint
5. Interior without plumbing (tile): 1/2" Hardibacker CBU over studs, then thinset, then tile
6. Interior without plumbing (paint): 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint
Assumptions (are any of these invalid?):
- I don’t need to use the 6 mil poly on the interior walls of the tub area.
- I can treat the interior wall with plumbing the same as the one without plumbing.
- For the rest of the room (i.e., outside the tub area), I can use 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint.
Thanks very much for your input.
Jim
The tub area has three walls: one exterior, one interior with plumbing, and one interior without plumbing. I plan to tile to a height of seven feet and paint the area above that on all three walls. So here is my plan for each of the three walls:
1. Exterior (tile): insulation with slits in kraft paper (already installed the insulation; didn’t know about the double vapor barrier issue), then 6 mil polyethylene sheets over studs, then 1/2" Hardibacker CBU, then thinset, then tile
2. Exterior (paint): insulation with slits in kraft paper, then 6 mil polyethylene sheets over studs, then 1/2" Hardibacker CBU, then primer, then paint
3. Interior with plumbing (tile): 1/2" Hardibacker CBU over studs, then thinset, then tile
4. Interior with plumbing (paint): 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint
5. Interior without plumbing (tile): 1/2" Hardibacker CBU over studs, then thinset, then tile
6. Interior without plumbing (paint): 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint
Assumptions (are any of these invalid?):
- I don’t need to use the 6 mil poly on the interior walls of the tub area.
- I can treat the interior wall with plumbing the same as the one without plumbing.
- For the rest of the room (i.e., outside the tub area), I can use 1/2" greenboard over studs, then primer, then paint.
Thanks very much for your input.
Jim
HeresJohnny
12-10-06, 10:59 AM
Jim
Some corrections. All the walls surrounding the tub should get a vapor barrier (6 mil poly is good). The vapor barrier must overlap the tub flange. No need for insulation on the interior walls but on the exterior wall yes slit the paper.
Greenboard is a waste of money. It doesnt perform any better that regular drywall does. If local code does not require greenboard, Id not waste my money on it.
Dont put hardi anyplace that you intend to paint. If you plan on tiling to a certain height and then painting above, use the hardi up to just below where you intend to tile and then drywall above that. Tape and mud these joints with thinset and alkali resistant mesh tape. The tile will end just above the taped joints. Youll have a smooth drywall surface to paint above.
Make sure that you tape all Hardi seams with alkali resistant tape and thinset as you set the tile. Hardi tends to suck the moisture out of thinset so make sure you dampen the hardi before you set the tile. Go on hardi's website, download there installation instructions and follow them carefully. Ask lotsa questions as you go.
Some corrections. All the walls surrounding the tub should get a vapor barrier (6 mil poly is good). The vapor barrier must overlap the tub flange. No need for insulation on the interior walls but on the exterior wall yes slit the paper.
Greenboard is a waste of money. It doesnt perform any better that regular drywall does. If local code does not require greenboard, Id not waste my money on it.
Dont put hardi anyplace that you intend to paint. If you plan on tiling to a certain height and then painting above, use the hardi up to just below where you intend to tile and then drywall above that. Tape and mud these joints with thinset and alkali resistant mesh tape. The tile will end just above the taped joints. Youll have a smooth drywall surface to paint above.
Make sure that you tape all Hardi seams with alkali resistant tape and thinset as you set the tile. Hardi tends to suck the moisture out of thinset so make sure you dampen the hardi before you set the tile. Go on hardi's website, download there installation instructions and follow them carefully. Ask lotsa questions as you go.
HeresJohnny
12-10-06, 11:02 AM
Oh yeah
Dont use any premixed thinsets or grouts that come in a bucket. Make sure you buy bagged thinset that you mix with water or additive. Make sure you buy powder grout that you mix with water or additive. When its time to seal, make sure you dont use any sealers that come in an aerosol can.
Dont use any premixed thinsets or grouts that come in a bucket. Make sure you buy bagged thinset that you mix with water or additive. Make sure you buy powder grout that you mix with water or additive. When its time to seal, make sure you dont use any sealers that come in an aerosol can.
griffjj
12-10-06, 12:03 PM
Thanks for the info, Johnny. A few follow-up questions/comments:
- Regarding the greenboard, I already purchased it a couple months ago when I had access to a truck. Since I already have it, is there any reason I should not use it? I'd have to rent a truck to return it and exchange it for the regular drywall, so I hope to avoid that if possible. But if there's a good reason not to use it, I'll take it back.
- My reasoning for painting the Hardi basically has to do with the double vapor barrier issue. I was thinking that if I ran the Hardi to a height of 7 feet, then put greenboard above that, I could only run the 6 mil poly to a height of 7 feet as well because I cannot have the poly behind the greenboard (double vapor barrier). But then if the poly does not go all the way to the ceiling, I assumed its effectiveness as a vapor barrier would be negated. So I figured the only way to have the poly run from the ceiling to the tub flange would be to put Hardi on the whole wall. The installation guide for the Hardi says that it can be primed and painted just like drywall, so I figured that would be okay. Could you give me some more details about why I should not paint over it?
- If I put 6 mil poly on the interior plumbing wall, I would have to cut holes for the water lines. Wouldn't this render the poly useless as a vapor barrier? Or would I have to seal the poly to the copper somehow?
Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure this out.
- Regarding the greenboard, I already purchased it a couple months ago when I had access to a truck. Since I already have it, is there any reason I should not use it? I'd have to rent a truck to return it and exchange it for the regular drywall, so I hope to avoid that if possible. But if there's a good reason not to use it, I'll take it back.
- My reasoning for painting the Hardi basically has to do with the double vapor barrier issue. I was thinking that if I ran the Hardi to a height of 7 feet, then put greenboard above that, I could only run the 6 mil poly to a height of 7 feet as well because I cannot have the poly behind the greenboard (double vapor barrier). But then if the poly does not go all the way to the ceiling, I assumed its effectiveness as a vapor barrier would be negated. So I figured the only way to have the poly run from the ceiling to the tub flange would be to put Hardi on the whole wall. The installation guide for the Hardi says that it can be primed and painted just like drywall, so I figured that would be okay. Could you give me some more details about why I should not paint over it?
- If I put 6 mil poly on the interior plumbing wall, I would have to cut holes for the water lines. Wouldn't this render the poly useless as a vapor barrier? Or would I have to seal the poly to the copper somehow?
Thanks again. I appreciate you taking the time to help me figure this out.
HeresJohnny
12-10-06, 12:20 PM
If you already have the greenboard theres no harm in using it.
Dont worry about the double vb in this instance. The greenboard will only be a small piece of the entire wall.
Use the vb on the plumbing wall as well. It wont be useless, it'll just have a few hole in it so it may not be as effective as the other walls. Cut the poly as tight as you can to the plumbing fittings. You can seal it to the plumbing if you like, but not necessary.
Dont worry about the double vb in this instance. The greenboard will only be a small piece of the entire wall.
Use the vb on the plumbing wall as well. It wont be useless, it'll just have a few hole in it so it may not be as effective as the other walls. Cut the poly as tight as you can to the plumbing fittings. You can seal it to the plumbing if you like, but not necessary.