Architecture - Won't pass "living space" code.....

Well, this is going to be interesting. I recently bought my first stone house with stone basement (85yrs old) and plan to remodel/finish the basement for a rec room of sorts. Problem is, the ceiling is only 6'8" tall throughout, which is fine for a comfy TV room/poker room - even if a bit low. I picked up the local city codes and they call for a minimum of 7' in "habitable spaces". So... I'm going to fail before I start if I call it a rec room...

Any thoughts before I head back to the permit office to discuss it with the local inspector? Call it storage space with recessed lighting and lots of wall outlets and cable outlets - and a wet bar? I've heard rumours of this sort of situation being "grandfathered in" as basements aren't built like this anymore... but am pretty sure it's just a rumor for the hopeful.

You probably won't know until you talk with the zoning/permit office. Things that were legal way back when still get grandfathered in from time to time.

If they are stuck on the 7' maybe they would let it slide if you left the floor joist open - should give you about 7.5' - spray it black for an industrial look.

Talk with your building inspector. Also, do you have egress to the outside? Natural light source?

Specific building codes tend to vary from area to area. If basement is not finished according to code and not permitted, when it comes time to sell the space will not count as habitable living space for resale purposes and you may have to tear out everything. Thus, it is important to build to code and get a permit.

I am not advocating circumventing building codes (we have finally gotten local legislation to put teeth in our existing codes, so I am quite happy). BUT, there is nothing wrong with a nice storage space, and of course, the lighting would have to be recessed to maintain walk-ability in the room, and receptacles to handle an occasional vacuuming (you know, no extension cords), and if you (oops!) forgot to cut the hole in the wall for the cable drop until after the inspection, what a travesty. Now, the wet bar may be another story.

Yeah, I've got the other bases covered - egress - natural lighting - etc.... It's just that damnded ceiling! I realize it won't count towards living space when I sell the home - though it would still be a selling point. But, I want it for myself - not the future homeowners.

Around here it's not just building and zoning you have to convince, it's the individual inspector that shows up at your house on a particular day. Inspector 1 might say, oh no problem, and if he is signing off on the final, you are golden. Inspector 2 might be the T-crossing, I-dotting, I'm gonna ask for stuff that really isn't even CODE type. We had type 2s for our last project, all except the final inspector, who was type 1, and he didn't even LOOK at the stuff we shoehorned in to make sure we passed inspection. Go figure.

I think that's the situation just about everywhere. I've always permitted my work - and even try to exceed code if I feel it's necessary. I've had inspectors spend 3 minutes "checking out" a 4 room remodel - and an inspector who spent 3 minutes per electrical outlet checking pigtails.

This one is going to be frustrating - but I guess I'm going to call it "storage space" on the drawings - and call those fancy cabinets "enclosed storage space". To make it even worse, I've got to get a licensed electrician to sign off on my work before the permit will be approved - as I suppose the inspectors don't feel qualified. (Another $100 or so, I'm sure!)

Ah well, the life of the avid DIYer.....

To make it even worse, I've got to get a licensed electrician to sign off on my work before the permit will be approved - as I suppose the inspectors don't feel qualified. (Another $100 or so, I'm sure!)

I've heard of places where the homeowner wasn't allowed to do his on elec or plumbing, just glad I don't live in one.

Our local elec inspector used to be an elec contractor and we used to do work for the same builder so I have no problems :D He was ready to pass a job for me that he thought wasn't up to code telling me what needed to be done - but I told him he needed new glasses when I pointed out that it was already done :p

thezster - you might want to talk to a licensed electrian early in the game. I assume he has to put his name/reputation on the line for you to get your work passed. It might be just as cheap for him to do some/all of the work.

Thanks for the thought... but the framing and wiring is just about done! I've done so many remodels over time that I usually get construction started after I check out the rules but before I actually file the permit - but leave everything exposed for rough-in inspections. Some locale's have time limitations on permits - and I don't want to overextend myself. I'm sure I'll be able to find a qualified electrician to check it out and sign off on it - for a couple of hours wages. 12 can lights/7 switches/14 outlets.... isn't rocket science....

Just thought I'd pass this one as an example of "code compliance" - yes or no!

As mentioned above-I'm remodeling a new basement in an 85 yr old home. The existing basement has a 6'9" ceiling if I put drywall on the joists. I applied for the permit using the exact measurements. It was rejected do the fact that code requires a 7ft ceiling height minimum. The director of the building permit office called me into his office, shut the door (and to make a long story short)- told me to resubmit the plans with the 7ft height on the plans. He told me (after saying repeatedly "Are you listening to me?") that his inspectors did not carry a tape measure to their inspections..... (Are you listening to me?)

I redid the remodel plans, showing a 7 ft finished height.... it was approved... and I just passed my framing/rough electrical inspection with flying colors. It took almost 60 seconds with the inspector (Phew).. who was more interested in my custom made poker table and dart board than my building skills.....

I'm really not complaining... but - Jeesh... what's the code for?

Lucky you! I think we all learned something here. Your 6'9+" tall friends will have to stay upstairs. This is an example of variation of enforcement from area to area.

Congrats! Wish our plumbing inspectors didn't carry tapes. We are within ONE INCH for all clearances in our toilet room. It's gonna be small, it's gonna look stupid, and we have to flip our external door around so it opens outward (luckilly under a deck) but it will pass code ::sigh::

Ya, it depends a lot on who the inspector is. I was painting some town houses once when the inspector shut the job down because the water and sewer lines on 1 unit were 16" apart instead of the required 18". Same inspector refused to sign off on another home because the cedar wood surround @ a fireplace was 1/8" too close to the fire box.

Of course I've been on other jobs where the inspector barely got out of his truck :eek:

Passed final inspection yesterday on the basement remodel.... The ceiling height certainly doesn't meet code requirements - but - as mentioned above - it's obviously not a serious requirement here...

And.... if I do say so myself... the new basement media room and associated poker room/wet bar/wine cellar - all look fantastic..... Not to mention - @ $220/sq ft for the upstairs.... the new 700 foot addition that cost me less than $5K - should easily pay for itself when it comes time to move again.

Great results! - It sounds like you did it right.

I guess the local inspector also is from the area and may have an older home too.

Often, inspectors are human if the are treated properly and not challenged to show their power.

Good going -

Dick

Back to the subject at hand, I guess it is over now, but would there have been any possibility of actually digging the basement floor deeper to gain ceiling height? I realize this might involve footings, water table issues, etc. Just wondered if this is sometimes a feasible solution.

SSN COB

Not in this application..... It can be done in certain circumstances.... but is about as spendy a project as you can do.... cheaper to build up than build down......

Ya, mighty expensive and a LOT of work!!!! The only times it would make sense is if you had a bad basement floor that HAD to be replaced or converting a 5' high cellar into living space.