Flooring Tile - Tiling around a window (not the jamb)

I know Ive asked a lot of questions but I didnt want to load one thread with too many different ones. So this is that last.

I am tiling a bathroom. When you walk in , the tub is straight ahead and there is a window in it.

When laying out the tile, if I have a full tile at the bottom - above the tub - I will have about a half a tile at the top - near the ceiling (the ceiling is not going to be tiled).

Is it more important to keep a full tile near the tub, or center them so the top and bottom tiles are equal size.

The window will be framed in a bullnose. This means that tiles that meet the bullnose will have to be cut - even though they are in the "field" is that ok? Of course you want cut tiles only in corners, but is it ok to have cut tiles in the field in order to properly center the window?

Also, with the window in the mix, is it more important to have the cut tiles above and below the window equal size.

(This is my third edit - the questions just keep coming) Where the Durock meets sheetrock, how do I tape that - spackle or thinset? I have that at the ceiling also. Or can I leave the corner where the ceiling and walls meet untaped? Im going to caulk that joint anyway.

And one final question. Not about tiling - just curiousity. We leave a small space (1/8") between the boards (as with sheetrock) because of expansion. yet we tape the joint and make the pieces joined anyway. Doesnt that seem contradictory?

For starters its difficult to have a full tile at the tub line. Tubs are rarely perfectly level on all walls that will be tiled. The key is to layout the walls in such a way that you dont wind up with any slivers of tile. Try to layout the walls such that you dont wind up with say less than 1/2 a tile anywhere.

When you tile the tub surround, leave out the first row of tile along the tub line. You'll have to cut the first row of tile so the space you leave for the first row should be something less than a full tile. You can set a level ledger board and set the second row of tile on the ledger board. Start with the second row of tile and get it perfectly level. When you are done with the walls go back and fill in the first row of tile. If you assume the tub is level and start with a full tile at the tub you may find that the tub isnt level and the tiles are running off in one direction or another.

Try a few different layouts and go with the one that leaves you a 1/2 tile or more at the tub, ceiling and around the window.

Ok, that makes perfect sense. Then my only concern is that I will frame out the window in bullnose. The window is centered in the tub. So Im assuming I would do that first.

So, when the window is framed in bullnose, I will need to cut field tiles even though they are not at wall corners. Im sure the cut end will go next to the bullnose - right?

Also, Im want the tiles left and right pf the window bullnose frame to be same size. As well as the top and bottom to be same size. This way it would look properly layed out - right?

When laying it out. I wll have cut tiles near the window (next to the bullnose) and at the ends of the wall.

When laying it out, Ill end up with a small 2 inch piece (they are 8x12 tiles) at either the endf the wall or up against the window ullnose. Im assuming I would want the small ones at the ends of the wall, since the window is dead center and is the eye grabber. Does that sound right?

Also, when putting up the durock, the ends always crack on me when screwing in the ends., when it is on a half stud along with another piece. Its still prettty solid in there, alot of meat was grabbed, but there is some break out. Will this be reinforced when taping the seams?

Yes frame the window first. Yes cut end of tiles should go next to bullnose. I wouldnt worry about tiles on top and bottom of the window and left and right of window being the same size. Try to do your layout so that you are not using any skinnys anywhere.

Its hard screwing the cement board close to the edges to not get this tear out. Youll be ok with it though. Its sometimes a good idea to put extra studs in the corners so youll have a whole stud to screw into.

Dont worry about equal sized pieces on around the window? Really? It seems like that would be the most important - since its dead center and framed by bullnose.

Id be afraid that it would look unbalanced.

Also, is there a problem if I dont frame the window first, and tile it when i get to it (working up from the bottom)? The reason is that below the window the wall isnt flat - its a bit concave - maybe 1/4 to 3/8 inch. I want to make sure that all the tiles are flus with each other and Im afraid if I frame the window first that by the time I lay the surrounding tiles I would be able to keep them flush.

And last, on the short walls (front and back of tub) there will also be bullnose to end the tile since only the tub area will be tiled. I will have one full bullnose outside the tub that runs to the ceiling. From that bullnose to the back wall, I can start tiling from the bullnose line aand end with a tile that is a little bigger than 1/2 size. Do I do that or do I center the tiles so that an equal sized one is at each end? That would require cutting the tiles up against the bullnose again. Im assuming you only cut field tiles when necessary, and this wouldnt be necessary.

Theres more than one way to layout the tile. If you can get equal sizes around the windows and decent size pieces in the corner then thats fine. You can lay out your situation better than me cause you are there to see it. If its a focal point then do what you can to make it look as pleasing to the eye as possible.

Yes you can tile the window frame bullnose as you go. Quite frankly thats the way I normally do mine. But you could also frame the window first if you wanted to. No problem there. I know its too late now but it would have been best if you get all the walls on plane by shimming and adding framing before putting up the cement board. 3/8" out of plane is a lot and you really cant make that up with the thinset in one application. Thinsets limit is generally 1/4". You may want to try to get the wall more on plane first before you tile. You could screed thinset in the low areas (no more than 1/4"), let it cure and then set your tile over a flatter surface. I will tell you though that screeding with thinset on a wall aint an easy thing to do.

For the short walls if you can start with a full tile at the bullnose and end up with more than a half at the wall that would be good. The tiles up against the bullnose will likely be more visible so if they are full tiles thats good.

Ok, I think its all clear now (except my small piece issue) Any thoughts on how you would lay this out, left to right?

wall width: 59"
window width (inside to inside): 25"
Bullnose: 2"
Field tiles: 8x12"
window width after framed with bullnose: 29"

Where on the wall is the window?

Its right in the center. Im not sure about up and down exactly - but Im notconcerned with that. But its exactly centered left/right.

A word of caution. When you say the tiles are 8" 12" have you measured them or is that what the box says. You need to take the tile out of the box, lay some tiles side by side with your spacers in place and then measure to see what you are up against. I worked with some 8" x 11" just yesterday. The actual measurements were 7 7/8" x 11 3/16.

With out spending lots of time on this Id think the best layout you will wind up with is to start with a full tile from the left. You'll have half a tile or more on both sides of the window and be left with a little less than half a tile on the right side.

Another alternative if this works for you is that you could frame the inside of the window with the bullnose and use only field tile on the wall. If you did this, you could balance the wall the way you want to by having the same size tile at each wall corner (5 or 6") and still have 3 or 4" pieces on each side of the window.

Were doing this layout piecemeal and we really shouldnt be. You should be looking at the layout as though its one flat plane all three walls. By that I mean that if you wind up with a 4" piece of tile in the corner of the back wall it looks best if you start with a 4" piece (total 8" width) on the side wall. You'll need to play with this a little to get the best layout.

Yes, your right, the tiles are slightly smaller than 8x12. But over the course of the wall it wont add up to much more than an inch - 1/2 on each end.

Wouldnt starting from the left leave the wall completely unbalanced? Both ends of the wall would have would have different size tiles, as would both sides of the window?

Bullnosing the inside of the window would work and field tiles to the end.

Starting from the left would not be my first choice. If you can bullnose the inside I think that would be the best look. You could balance the back wall nicely.

Are windows normally framed in bullnose? Is it common? Or is the bullnose usually inside the window?

I almost always bullnose inside the window. You could frame it if you want to though. I typically would not frame it unless a customer requested it. In your case you have a 25" window on a 59" wall. I think that framing will make the window look even bigger than it is. I'd bullnose the inside. Your friend will cover your work with a nice curtain on the window anyway.

Your original inquiry suggested that there was maybe a reason that you wanted to frame it. If there is no good reason for doing it I wouldn't.

teh reason is that the "customer" (family member) had decide on that when they picked the tile. Maybe because they saw it somewhere like in a magazine, maybe thought up on their own, maybe suggested by person at the tile store - Im not sure.

So, in that sense, was expected. But probably not a big deal. Ill find out.

I guess they have a choice - frame with small tile or no frame bigger tiles.