Solid Hardwood, Engineered and Laminate Flooring - Floor Squeeky

The pine wood floors in my the upstairs of my house--circa 1935--squeek in a few areas. I have seen through the ceiling below, that the floor planks are just laid across the joists--
(16'' OC) no subfloor, no paper.
I'd appreciate suggestions to eliminate the squeek. What if I tried to inserting glue between the planks? Thanks?

I think glue might make it worse. I would try baby (talc) powder in the seams between the planks.

Why might glue be bad?

I've never tried glue to quiet a squeaky floor. My guess is that the glue in the seam between the planks would dry and then crack when the floor flexes. The glue would probably crumble, rub and squeak.
What is probably making the noise is the edges of the planks rubbing together when you step on them. Either the planks aren't secured properly or more likely their support is inadequate. Sometimes a little talc in the seam will quiet it down. Another option is to get under the floor and add some support in the squeaky areas.

Can you imagine the refinishing nightmares your going to have when you do sand an finish, and the finish keeps beading up, because some misinformed consumer advised you to sprinkle talc powder on your floor and into the edges??


Holey moley!! :wall:

You're a moderator? Is it possible the "misinformed consumer" reference leaves a little to be desired?
Can't talc residue be cleaned off? What do you suggest?

Don't put talc powder on your floor, unless you wish to have nightmares when it comes time to refinish.

How are you going to clean talc powder out of the joints???


Instead of a simple light sanding of the finish and a top coat of new finish, the floor will need to be sanded all the way to bare wood, and a shellac sealer applied before topcoats of finish. $1 a sq.ft for a screen & recoat, just jumped to $4 sq.ft for a resand and refinish.

You get where I'm going with this? It's your floor, do what you wish. :wall:

I've got a similar problem. I've added cross bracing on the joists thinking the floor was squeeking because of movement. Instead I've discovered that the wood floor is moving on top of the subfloor.


I added a screw straight down on the floor into the subfloor but I ended up cracking one of the planks because there seems to be a rather large gap in some places (maybe the subfloor sagged?).


My home improvement/fix book recommends minieral oil or graphite powder to fix this kind of squeek. Is this not the recommended fix for this sort of problem (until I redo the floor that is)?

Greetings,

I've been a wood floor contractor for 26 years. I love pine floors. Many contractors prefer not to mess with them, but I enjoy pine more than oak.

FORGET trying to LUBRICATE squeaks away. This may have been alright 60 years ago when most floors were waxed. Lubricants like oil or silicone will cause adhesion problems with finish. (I don't believe talc would, as it is an inert powder - hydrous aluminum silicate - but it also wouldn't help.) Graphite can cause darks streaks when it migrates to the surface.

The following is for a floor directly on joists, without a subfloor. I imagine most of your squeaks are near the ends of the boards. These were never nailed in the old days, probably as the large nails used (often square-
cut) would split the tongue.

To quiet the squeak you need to nail the board to the joist. If you have a pneumatic (air-powered) nailer this is easy. Use 2" nails, 16 gauge preferred.
Nail at approx 45 degree angle keeping the starting point about 1 inch from the end of the board (to reduce splitting). Set the pressure high enough to "set" the nail (drive it so the head is below the surface).

If you need to do it "manually" get 16d (16 penny) finish nails. 12d will do, 16d will hold better. Chuck a nail into a drill (cordless is slower but will work) and use it as a drill bit to make "pilot holes" for each nail. You'll be surprised how fast the nail goes thru the wood. (You CAN use a drill bit, but a nail is EXACTLY the right diameter, does not break easily, and often works FASTER than a bit. Try it before you disbelieve.)

Again, angle the holes about 45 degrees, starting about an inch from the end of the board angled toward the joist. ONLY drill far enough to drill thru the board, not into the joist. (At 45 degrees this will be just over an inch if your floor is the normal 3/4" thick).

While nailing I prefer to hold the nail with pliers. It reduces bending the nail and blackening the fingernail. When the nail has gone in far enough that the pliers are close to the floor, hammer without it. Before the nail is ALL the way in, use a nail set to put it below the wood surface. The resulting hole can be filled.

If your squeaks are NOT near the end of the board, you need to locate the joist. Easiest is to sight across the floor for joints. If you find a joint in line with your squeak, use a large square to accurately locate the joist.

Often you can find a little bit of nail showing, sometime the edge of the board is crushed from hurried craftsmen hammers. Another means is to locate with a strong magnet - there will be a "tug" where the nails are. I've used a compass - the needle sways toward the nails.

Once you think you have the joist pinpointed you need to drill a pilot hole to confirm. Use the nail as a drill bit as above, put a piece of tape about an inch from the tip. Drill an inch into the board. Use a smaller gauge nail (I like the "hardened trim" nails) and insert into the hole. (Hold onto it! as if you missed the joist it will go all the way in and sometime tough to extract.) If the nail stops at the same depth you drilled, VIOLA, you found the joist.

If it drops further, you missed. Move about 1/2" over and try again. (I alternate to another board to not have one peppered with holes close together.)

SOMETIMES the board is not supported by the joist. Could be a joist is flawed or the installer missed it or the board is thin at the end. In this case it is better to NOT nail it down as far as you can, as you'll likely break the tongue and have a low spot.

This is not easy to manage with the manual method above. With an air-nailer you can put many nails angled steeply and at different angles. This results in the board being "on stilts" yet held tightly.

Without a subfloor, you may need to put some nails into - or from - neighboring boards. This "sews" them together. Don't try this manually.

For those who DO have a subfloor, your work may be easier, or it may be harder. If the squeak comes from isolated boards, it is probably just the finish floor squeaking.

If you get the SAME squeak when you step on DIFFERENT boards in an area, then it it the SUBFLOOR that is loose. Most problem squeaks I deal with fall in this category! You have to nail THRU the finish floor AND the SUBFLOOR and INTO the joist to tighten it up to end the movement causing the squeak.

If there is no finished ceiling below the floor you can figger out where to nail by putting a nail thru while someone observes below and hollers how far and which direction to try next. If there is an air vent on the floor you may be able to see a joist, then measure over multiples of 16" while crossing your fingers that they positioned joists standardly.

Using a magnet or compass won't help as the nails in the finish floor are not likely right over the joist. A "stud finder" MIGHT work if it operates on density, not magnetism.

Locating the joist with the drilling method may be the only way, though. Invest in a good matching filler!

Hope this helps someone.

Gnarlywood

Greetings,

I've been a wood floor contractor for 26 years. I love pine floors. Many contractors prefer not to mess with them, but I enjoy pine more than oak.

FORGET trying to LUBRICATE squeaks away. This may have been alright 60 years ago when most floors were waxed. Lubricants like oil or silicone will cause adhesion problems with finish. (I don't believe talc would, as it is an inert powder - hydrous aluminum silicate - but it also wouldn't help.) Graphite can cause darks streaks when it migrates to the surface.

The following is for a floor directly on joists, without a subfloor. I imagine most of your squeaks are near the ends of the boards. These were never nailed in the old days, probably as the large nails used (often square-
cut) would split the tongue.

To quiet the squeak you need to nail the board to the joist. If you have a pneumatic (air-powered) nailer this is easy. Use 2" nails, 16 gauge preferred.
Nail at approx 45 degree angle keeping the starting point about 1 inch from the end of the board (to reduce splitting). Set the pressure high enough to "set" the nail (drive it so the head is below the surface).

If you need to do it "manually" get 16d (16 penny) finish nails. 12d will do, 16d will hold better. Chuck a nail into a drill (cordless is slower but will work) and use it as a drill bit to make "pilot holes" for each nail. You'll be surprised how fast the nail goes thru the wood. (You CAN use a drill bit, but a nail is EXACTLY the right diameter, does not break easily, and often works FASTER than a bit. Try it before you disbelieve.)

Again, angle the holes about 45 degrees, starting about an inch from the end of the board angled toward the joist. ONLY drill far enough to drill thru the board, not into the joist. (At 45 degrees this will be just over an inch if your floor is the normal 3/4" thick).

While nailing I prefer to hold the nail with pliers. It reduces bending the nail and blackening the fingernail. When the nail has gone in far enough that the pliers are close to the floor, hammer without it. Before the nail is ALL the way in, use a nail set to put it below the wood surface. The resulting hole can be filled.

If your squeaks are NOT near the end of the board, you need to locate the joist. Easiest is to sight across the floor for joints. If you find a joint in line with your squeak, use a large square to accurately locate the joist.

Often you can find a little bit of nail showing, sometime the edge of the board is crushed from hurried craftsmen hammers. Another means is to locate with a strong magnet - there will be a "tug" where the nails are. I've used a compass - the needle sways toward the nails.

Once you think you have the joist pinpointed you need to drill a pilot hole to confirm. Use the nail as a drill bit as above, put a piece of tape about an inch from the tip. Drill an inch into the board. Use a smaller gauge nail (I like the "hardened trim" nails) and insert into the hole. (Hold onto it! as if you missed the joist it will go all the way in and sometime tough to extract.) If the nail stops at the same depth you drilled, VIOLA, you found the joist.

If it drops further, you missed. Move about 1/2" over and try again. (I alternate to another board to not have one peppered with holes close together.)

SOMETIMES the board is not supported by the joist. Could be a joist is flawed or the installer missed it or the board is thin at the end. In this case it is better to NOT nail it down as far as you can, as you'll likely break the tongue and have a low spot.

This is not easy to manage with the manual method above. With an air-nailer you can put many nails angled steeply and at different angles. This results in the board being "on stilts" yet held tightly.

Without a subfloor, you may need to put some nails into - or from - neighboring boards. This "sews" them together. Don't try this manually.

For those who DO have a subfloor, your work may be easier, or it may be harder. If the squeak comes from isolated boards, it is probably just the finish floor squeaking.

If you get the SAME squeak when you step on DIFFERENT boards in an area, then it it the SUBFLOOR that is loose. Most problem squeaks I deal with fall in this category! You have to nail THRU the finish floor AND the SUBFLOOR and INTO the joist to tighten it up to end the movement causing the squeak.

If there is no finished ceiling below the floor you can figger out where to nail by putting a nail thru while someone observes below and hollers how far and which direction to try next. If there is an air vent on the floor you may be able to see a joist, then measure over multiples of 16" while crossing your fingers that they positioned joists standardly.

Using a magnet or compass won't help as the nails in the finish floor are not likely right over the joist. A "stud finder" MIGHT work if it operates on density, not magnetism.

Locating the joist with the drilling method may be the only way, though. Invest in a good matching filler!

Hope this helps someone.

Gnarlywood