Doors and Windows - Advice Andersen vs JeldWen windows
Doityourself.com community forum was created to provide answers to all questions related to home improvement and home repair. Doityourself community can help you find information about how-to topics on small fixes to large remodeling projects. With comprehensive how-to content and expertly moderated community forums DoItYourself.com makes it easy to tackle even the most complex home improvement projects.View Full Version : Advice Andersen vs JeldWen windows
jaybuilder
03-26-06, 05:28 PM
Hello, we live outside of South Bend, IN, near lake Michigan. In case anyone wants to know, it gets really cold here so I'm looking for the best windows I can afford. By the way, I'm "near the lake" not "on the lake", in case anyone thinks my pockets are real deep.
The builder has specified Andersen windows, which is certainly not an unfamiliar name. Talking with a friend, he asked me if I was using 200 or 400 series. I must have had a dumb look on my face cause he said, it makes a world of difference. So, I started doing to some research. (oh, the builder said they were 200 TW), which I have since learned is Andersen's "builder quality" window. After visiting several window places, I'm told to forget all the good reputation stuff I've heard about Andersen quality, etc because the 200 is a price point window. Of course, they are salemen with competing products, but the same words "builder quality" was repeated by all of them.
I've heard the Andersen 400 level is a very good product, but the price is more than I want to pay. In the same price range as A200 is the JeldWen Builder's line. (There's that "builders" word again) Oh well. They also have a Premium line which is more that I want to spend. Additional stuff I have learned is the JW builders is really the Caradco, and the Premium is Norco. Both of these companies are owned by JeldWen.
Checking performance, (U, SHGC, DP, etc) both windows seem to compare very close so I have to use something to differentiate. So, I am hoping there is someone who can give me objective answers, (not just your feelings on which is better based on my questions.) By the way, I have ruled out the Pella Proline after looking at a cross section of it. The wood is very thin. While it looks good from an appearance standpoint, when I saw a cut-away, it looked as if there was nothing there.
Here is what I'd like some input on: I've put a "Q" and number next to my questions so that they can be separate from the text that I put in. Hopefull, this will make is easy for someone to answer
Q-1. Do all Andersen 200's come with tilt latch sashes or do they have compression jamb liners?
I understand that the double hung frame of a Andersen is "coated" with vinyl paint and not wrapped with vinyl like the frame.
Q-2. Is this any cause for concern?
Q-3. How would you rate the vinyl paint and vinyl wrap as compared to aluminum wrap on the JeldWen? Someone told me the vinyl paint can scrape off with even a fingernail. On the JW the frame is extruded aluminum and the sash is roll form clad.
Q-4. Is there a great deal of difference in sash and frame thickness between the Andersen and JW?
Both products have a 20yr non prorated glass seal warranty, but the JW does something like pressure treated wood to their windows and has a 20yr "no rot" warranty on the whole window. Andersen is only 10 yrs and doesn't say anything specifically about rot like the JW. I have heard that roll formed clad sashes can get wet and rot, but with the 20 yrs warranty this seems to be a moot point.
Q-5 What are your thoughts on the value of the warranty?
Q-6 Andersen cites expert help when I need it. Does this mean they will actually provide the labor to replace glass in a fixed transom if the seal fails after the first few years? I understand they will replace a sash that I can do myself, but I can't reglaze a fixed window.
Q-7 Anything else I should take into consideration other than the cost?
The builder has specified Andersen windows, which is certainly not an unfamiliar name. Talking with a friend, he asked me if I was using 200 or 400 series. I must have had a dumb look on my face cause he said, it makes a world of difference. So, I started doing to some research. (oh, the builder said they were 200 TW), which I have since learned is Andersen's "builder quality" window. After visiting several window places, I'm told to forget all the good reputation stuff I've heard about Andersen quality, etc because the 200 is a price point window. Of course, they are salemen with competing products, but the same words "builder quality" was repeated by all of them.
I've heard the Andersen 400 level is a very good product, but the price is more than I want to pay. In the same price range as A200 is the JeldWen Builder's line. (There's that "builders" word again) Oh well. They also have a Premium line which is more that I want to spend. Additional stuff I have learned is the JW builders is really the Caradco, and the Premium is Norco. Both of these companies are owned by JeldWen.
Checking performance, (U, SHGC, DP, etc) both windows seem to compare very close so I have to use something to differentiate. So, I am hoping there is someone who can give me objective answers, (not just your feelings on which is better based on my questions.) By the way, I have ruled out the Pella Proline after looking at a cross section of it. The wood is very thin. While it looks good from an appearance standpoint, when I saw a cut-away, it looked as if there was nothing there.
Here is what I'd like some input on: I've put a "Q" and number next to my questions so that they can be separate from the text that I put in. Hopefull, this will make is easy for someone to answer
Q-1. Do all Andersen 200's come with tilt latch sashes or do they have compression jamb liners?
I understand that the double hung frame of a Andersen is "coated" with vinyl paint and not wrapped with vinyl like the frame.
Q-2. Is this any cause for concern?
Q-3. How would you rate the vinyl paint and vinyl wrap as compared to aluminum wrap on the JeldWen? Someone told me the vinyl paint can scrape off with even a fingernail. On the JW the frame is extruded aluminum and the sash is roll form clad.
Q-4. Is there a great deal of difference in sash and frame thickness between the Andersen and JW?
Both products have a 20yr non prorated glass seal warranty, but the JW does something like pressure treated wood to their windows and has a 20yr "no rot" warranty on the whole window. Andersen is only 10 yrs and doesn't say anything specifically about rot like the JW. I have heard that roll formed clad sashes can get wet and rot, but with the 20 yrs warranty this seems to be a moot point.
Q-5 What are your thoughts on the value of the warranty?
Q-6 Andersen cites expert help when I need it. Does this mean they will actually provide the labor to replace glass in a fixed transom if the seal fails after the first few years? I understand they will replace a sash that I can do myself, but I can't reglaze a fixed window.
Q-7 Anything else I should take into consideration other than the cost?
jaws
03-30-06, 10:11 AM
Hi Jaybuilder,
I am not a contractor just an extreme do-it-yourselfer. I live in Michigan and understand the meaning of the words "lake effect snow". I do not "live on the lake" either and agree with your concern for a good window at a good price. I installed the Andersen 400 series windows in the front of my house which faces the west (Lake Michigan is to my west) Most of the bad weather here blows off the lake and heads towards the front of my house. I have lived with these for two years and have no complaints. I am happy enough with them that I just ordered windows to replace the rest of my outdated windows. These are not the Andersen renewal windows. I am removing all remaining siding and windows and starting over. I cannot answer many of the questions reguarding the construction of the frames and such, however I can tell you that I get no condensation and no drafts through these windows. I have no problems with the paint holding up at present. I agonized over different window manufactures models and decided on these after recommendations from a friend who is a contractor. I am happy with my decision.
I hope this helps with your decision,
Jeff
I am not a contractor just an extreme do-it-yourselfer. I live in Michigan and understand the meaning of the words "lake effect snow". I do not "live on the lake" either and agree with your concern for a good window at a good price. I installed the Andersen 400 series windows in the front of my house which faces the west (Lake Michigan is to my west) Most of the bad weather here blows off the lake and heads towards the front of my house. I have lived with these for two years and have no complaints. I am happy enough with them that I just ordered windows to replace the rest of my outdated windows. These are not the Andersen renewal windows. I am removing all remaining siding and windows and starting over. I cannot answer many of the questions reguarding the construction of the frames and such, however I can tell you that I get no condensation and no drafts through these windows. I have no problems with the paint holding up at present. I agonized over different window manufactures models and decided on these after recommendations from a friend who is a contractor. I am happy with my decision.
I hope this helps with your decision,
Jeff
grob62
03-31-06, 06:23 PM
i will not trash any product however i will say this about the 200 series double hung from Andersen. I went on many jobs as a service technician to "upgrade" these "installation unfriendly" windows. I think the term "builder" is used because builder's love them because they are inexpensive compared to 400 series. I myself think they are a great window for the money, especially if you live in a place that has a lot of trees for windbreaks. The 400 series will outperform the 200 by far. The Andersen casement is my favorite new construction casement window. If I were to buy a new construction double hung, and money was not an issue, I would buy the Marvin Ultimate double hung. This is only my opinion.
To answer a few of your questions, To the best of my knowledge:
1. All 200 series double hungs are tilt latches, but the do have a type of compression weatherstrips built into the jambliners.
2. I assume you mean the sashes are coated unlike the wrapped frame. I have never seen any problems with this other than the occasional chip from an errant hammer. Sashes are easily replaced.
3. I personally prefer aluminum clad, but I think the vinyl performs very well too.
5. I can't speak for the Jeld-wen, but Andersen's service is excellent. I have seen them replace every window in houses up to 20 years old for warranty issues, and sometimes pay for the labor.
6. Yes.. they will provide labor for a couple of years after purchase. I have reglazed a few CTC's in my day, at no charge to the homeowner.
7. I can't tell you what to do, but if you do go with Andersen line, they will go out of their way to make you a satisfied customer. If it is within your budget I highly advise going with the 400 series double hungs or casements.
To answer a few of your questions, To the best of my knowledge:
1. All 200 series double hungs are tilt latches, but the do have a type of compression weatherstrips built into the jambliners.
2. I assume you mean the sashes are coated unlike the wrapped frame. I have never seen any problems with this other than the occasional chip from an errant hammer. Sashes are easily replaced.
3. I personally prefer aluminum clad, but I think the vinyl performs very well too.
5. I can't speak for the Jeld-wen, but Andersen's service is excellent. I have seen them replace every window in houses up to 20 years old for warranty issues, and sometimes pay for the labor.
6. Yes.. they will provide labor for a couple of years after purchase. I have reglazed a few CTC's in my day, at no charge to the homeowner.
7. I can't tell you what to do, but if you do go with Andersen line, they will go out of their way to make you a satisfied customer. If it is within your budget I highly advise going with the 400 series double hungs or casements.