Water Softeners and Air Filtration Systems - Rusty Water
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rsharkey
03-05-06, 07:27 PM
Well Problem
“Rusty Water”
I moved into my house in March 1886. @ that time the water system only had a inline filter. I had a very expensive General Ionics system , Model IQ and Model EE, installed in May 1987
In January 1988 I lost water and was told by the local well driller that my “Well had gone bad”. The first well was drilled February 1982. He drilled me another well .The new well is 145 feet deep with 53 feet of 6 5/8 inch of galvanized casing. He reused the old pump and the pressure tank .
I’ve had my water tested a number of times over the years with the following results for raw untreated water:
3/1/88 by Sears -
Hardness 5.5 GPG ; Iron .7 PPM; PH 7.2 ; Dissolved Solids 9 GPG; Stability Index 10.2
10/16/97 by Culligan-
Turbidity 11.0 NTU, Conductivity 262 MMHOS/CM ; Iron 1.8 PPM, PH 8.1.
About 2 months a go I notice a gradual loss of water pressure. I had a different company come in to evaluate my system and they told me I needed a new pump and pressure tank. On February 29, 2006 they came and pulled my old pump out and replaced it with a new ½ HP pump and replaced my pressure tank with a Amtrol, Well-X-Troll WX-202 water system tank. I wasn’t hom e @ the time but my wife told me that the pump and accompanying hose was coated with orange slime/sediment.
I asked them to clean my well and for $100.00 they dumped a gallon of bleach down the well.
Since the replacement my water has varied from orange sludge to urine colored water. The well company states I must be patient , “It will clear up”. When asked for a time table they told me that it could be a couple of days, weeks, or months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Prior to the well replacement my water was clear but with low pressure/volume. I now have excellent pressure with the tank set @ 60 PSI.
The well technician has run my filtration system a number of times and has it set to recharge every night for the next week. He has added a liquid to my salt brine to help recharge my resin bed. I get a mild salty taste the following mourning when I run the water.
I use an in line filter with the following results:
Whirlpool WHCF -WHWC Dual Purpose, 2 micron, rated @ 3 months it lasts 1 day. Cleans the water until it stops the water flow because the filter clogs.
2nd filter is woven thread filter , does not do a good job, leaves water murky with tinge of rust.
The good thing about this ordeal is that I have found that I have great water volume. The technician had me run my water from the base of the tank for up to an hour @ a time ,a couple of times a day to try to clear the well ,with no loss of volume.
Questions:
Do you think my well will self clean itself.?
Considering the age of my water system, 19 years ,do think my resin bed is still working?
What filtration system would you recommend?
Is there a mechanical method of cleaning the well, that would be effective in cleaning the water?
Should the pump have been raised when put back into the well, and would that help my water quality?
Do we need stabilizer rings on the pipe coming out of the well?
“Rusty Water”
I moved into my house in March 1886. @ that time the water system only had a inline filter. I had a very expensive General Ionics system , Model IQ and Model EE, installed in May 1987
In January 1988 I lost water and was told by the local well driller that my “Well had gone bad”. The first well was drilled February 1982. He drilled me another well .The new well is 145 feet deep with 53 feet of 6 5/8 inch of galvanized casing. He reused the old pump and the pressure tank .
I’ve had my water tested a number of times over the years with the following results for raw untreated water:
3/1/88 by Sears -
Hardness 5.5 GPG ; Iron .7 PPM; PH 7.2 ; Dissolved Solids 9 GPG; Stability Index 10.2
10/16/97 by Culligan-
Turbidity 11.0 NTU, Conductivity 262 MMHOS/CM ; Iron 1.8 PPM, PH 8.1.
About 2 months a go I notice a gradual loss of water pressure. I had a different company come in to evaluate my system and they told me I needed a new pump and pressure tank. On February 29, 2006 they came and pulled my old pump out and replaced it with a new ½ HP pump and replaced my pressure tank with a Amtrol, Well-X-Troll WX-202 water system tank. I wasn’t hom e @ the time but my wife told me that the pump and accompanying hose was coated with orange slime/sediment.
I asked them to clean my well and for $100.00 they dumped a gallon of bleach down the well.
Since the replacement my water has varied from orange sludge to urine colored water. The well company states I must be patient , “It will clear up”. When asked for a time table they told me that it could be a couple of days, weeks, or months!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!. Prior to the well replacement my water was clear but with low pressure/volume. I now have excellent pressure with the tank set @ 60 PSI.
The well technician has run my filtration system a number of times and has it set to recharge every night for the next week. He has added a liquid to my salt brine to help recharge my resin bed. I get a mild salty taste the following mourning when I run the water.
I use an in line filter with the following results:
Whirlpool WHCF -WHWC Dual Purpose, 2 micron, rated @ 3 months it lasts 1 day. Cleans the water until it stops the water flow because the filter clogs.
2nd filter is woven thread filter , does not do a good job, leaves water murky with tinge of rust.
The good thing about this ordeal is that I have found that I have great water volume. The technician had me run my water from the base of the tank for up to an hour @ a time ,a couple of times a day to try to clear the well ,with no loss of volume.
Questions:
Do you think my well will self clean itself.?
Considering the age of my water system, 19 years ,do think my resin bed is still working?
What filtration system would you recommend?
Is there a mechanical method of cleaning the well, that would be effective in cleaning the water?
Should the pump have been raised when put back into the well, and would that help my water quality?
Do we need stabilizer rings on the pipe coming out of the well?
Art with Rayne
03-05-06, 10:52 PM
rsharkey,
You have a few things going on there. There might be some typos on the water test results (Turbidity of 11.0 for example) and it's probably time to have the well water tested again. The low water pressure is probably from iron fouling of the resin bed. The morning after salty taste is probably a product of over brining.
Your 2.0 micron filter is clogging due to its service flow rate. Depending on the size of the cartridge, it's usually rated for 0.5 - 1.0 gallons per minute. Could it be a 20.0 micron filter? Based on your previous water test results, even that it small and not the right treatment method.
Will the well "self clean" itself? Not likely.
The iron needs to be oxidized and filtered out. A chlorinator & Centaur filter would be the first course of action. Please post your water test results and you'll receive plenty of recommendations from the members of this forum.
Art
You have a few things going on there. There might be some typos on the water test results (Turbidity of 11.0 for example) and it's probably time to have the well water tested again. The low water pressure is probably from iron fouling of the resin bed. The morning after salty taste is probably a product of over brining.
Your 2.0 micron filter is clogging due to its service flow rate. Depending on the size of the cartridge, it's usually rated for 0.5 - 1.0 gallons per minute. Could it be a 20.0 micron filter? Based on your previous water test results, even that it small and not the right treatment method.
Will the well "self clean" itself? Not likely.
The iron needs to be oxidized and filtered out. A chlorinator & Centaur filter would be the first course of action. Please post your water test results and you'll receive plenty of recommendations from the members of this forum.
Art
rsharkey
03-06-06, 07:59 PM
What is a chlorinator & Centaur filter?
Art with Rayne
03-07-06, 09:39 AM
A chlorinator serves two major purposes for typical well problems you mention: disinfection of the water and oxidation of the iron. The Centaur filter will reduce the chlorine and will reduce thru filtration the oxidized iron. It can also handle hydrogen sulfide but I've had better success in my location with manganese greensand filters for iron & hydrogen sulfide reduction.
You should have your water retested and give us an idea of what quality water you want for your home for a proper treatment recommendation. Thanks.
Art
You should have your water retested and give us an idea of what quality water you want for your home for a proper treatment recommendation. Thanks.
Art
rsharkey
03-07-06, 05:41 PM
I'm getting it tested ASAP. Thanks.
AndyC
03-07-06, 07:13 PM
Rsharkey.
As you may have discovered, water treatment is not a simple matter. There are so many facets to putting together the right combinations to make it work.
I wouldn’t recommend the filter that you are using. The filter needs to flushed for 10 minutes before using. That means it is a carbon filter. The ‘dual’ part of it is to both remove sediment and CTO (clarity, taste and odor). But it does neither very well, actually. The total area of carbon is very little and, at 2 microns, it is too fine to allow proper flow rate for any length of time. This is more suited for ‘polishing’ drinking water.
Actually, it is a pleated carbon filter. It is not normally the best selection for prefiltration as it will clog easily if large amounts of sediment are coming up from your new well work, which is common especially after chlorinating.
A 4.5” x 10” (20” is better) pleated synthetic sediment filter would provide better flow rate and longer use. They are resistent to cellulose bacteria and some are even washable and can be reused.
All-in-all, if sediment continues to be a problem, an automatic backwashing filter may be needed.
Will the well clean itself? Well, yes and no. The quality of water coming from a well, although normally fairly consistent, can show remarkable variation through out its useful life.
Many factors can alter the quality of water and any disturbance to the well will result in changes more toward the negative. Chlorination, pump replacement, local quarry blasting, seasonal rains, neighbor’s broken septic are among just a few causes of well problems. No sure answer can be given on whether it will improve or not by itself.
At 19 years of age and dubious water conditions, I would definitely recommend a resin transplant. For the cost, it is worth it. It will give your softener a new lease on life and you will feel confident that you are making a responsible decision.
If the well pump is sitting too low and mixing up mud, etc., then raising it may help reduce sediment draw. I am not sure why you mentioned stabilizing rings.
I hope this answered your questions.
As you may have discovered, water treatment is not a simple matter. There are so many facets to putting together the right combinations to make it work.
I wouldn’t recommend the filter that you are using. The filter needs to flushed for 10 minutes before using. That means it is a carbon filter. The ‘dual’ part of it is to both remove sediment and CTO (clarity, taste and odor). But it does neither very well, actually. The total area of carbon is very little and, at 2 microns, it is too fine to allow proper flow rate for any length of time. This is more suited for ‘polishing’ drinking water.
Actually, it is a pleated carbon filter. It is not normally the best selection for prefiltration as it will clog easily if large amounts of sediment are coming up from your new well work, which is common especially after chlorinating.
A 4.5” x 10” (20” is better) pleated synthetic sediment filter would provide better flow rate and longer use. They are resistent to cellulose bacteria and some are even washable and can be reused.
All-in-all, if sediment continues to be a problem, an automatic backwashing filter may be needed.
Will the well clean itself? Well, yes and no. The quality of water coming from a well, although normally fairly consistent, can show remarkable variation through out its useful life.
Many factors can alter the quality of water and any disturbance to the well will result in changes more toward the negative. Chlorination, pump replacement, local quarry blasting, seasonal rains, neighbor’s broken septic are among just a few causes of well problems. No sure answer can be given on whether it will improve or not by itself.
At 19 years of age and dubious water conditions, I would definitely recommend a resin transplant. For the cost, it is worth it. It will give your softener a new lease on life and you will feel confident that you are making a responsible decision.
If the well pump is sitting too low and mixing up mud, etc., then raising it may help reduce sediment draw. I am not sure why you mentioned stabilizing rings.
I hope this answered your questions.
Rand
03-08-06, 06:26 AM
I've had rusty well water forever. I'm told that this is actually iron bacteria, which is brackish black until it is exposed to oxygen, then it turns rust colored brown as it is killed. Lovely.
My "well went bad" last spring, too. The well driller, being a well DRILLER (not a well fixer) quoted me $19,570.00 to put in a 600 ft 6" well to replace my 290 ft 5" well, and a 3hp, 240v/2ph pump.
Not included was re-landscaping, the septic truck to remove the drill sludge, the new sub-panel, repair of the drywall to get at the main panel, etc., etc., etc. My guess was in the mid $20K region plus higher electric bill. He removed my pump, pipe, and wires, drove off and told me to call when ready to drill.
Turns out, the aquifer level was dropping, BUT more importantly it was becoming low producing. A well works by creating a hydroponic vacuum that is replenished by water from the surrounding earth. As the fissures and cracks change, the ability for the well to replenish can diminishe.
After doing research, and for a total of $2500, I purchased 2 100-gal plastic tanks, a 1/2hp 5GPM well pump, a 3/4hp shallow well pump, and some miscellaneous parts for a control panel.
Now, my well pump takes its sweet time filling 200 gallons and the shallow well pump draws off those to pump up the pressure tanks. When the water level drops below 175 gallons, the well pump kicks in and cycles on and off (timer relay) 10 min / 10 min.
Here's the point - the well works FINE, no drilling was required - but by slow-pumping, the following has happened:
** Eliminated stress on the aquifer at that point
** Less agitation means less iron bacteria coming in
** The un-pressurized holding takes are aerated, killing remainder of iron bacteria
** A large paper filter after the pressure pump gets more + sediment
** The water softener finishes the job
** I have never had water this clear - no rust anywhere
** I saved at least $17,070.00 plus huge electric bills
The same thing happened to my neighbor 6 months later. He got a similar quote, I put in a similar system for him, he got similar results.
I got all my well parts from Dean Bennett Supply www.deanbennett.com (horrid web site, great people, best prices). They will even consult with you free of charge on setting up this kind of system. Mine has been running for almost a year.
You could start a business doing this and never sleep.
My "well went bad" last spring, too. The well driller, being a well DRILLER (not a well fixer) quoted me $19,570.00 to put in a 600 ft 6" well to replace my 290 ft 5" well, and a 3hp, 240v/2ph pump.
Not included was re-landscaping, the septic truck to remove the drill sludge, the new sub-panel, repair of the drywall to get at the main panel, etc., etc., etc. My guess was in the mid $20K region plus higher electric bill. He removed my pump, pipe, and wires, drove off and told me to call when ready to drill.
Turns out, the aquifer level was dropping, BUT more importantly it was becoming low producing. A well works by creating a hydroponic vacuum that is replenished by water from the surrounding earth. As the fissures and cracks change, the ability for the well to replenish can diminishe.
After doing research, and for a total of $2500, I purchased 2 100-gal plastic tanks, a 1/2hp 5GPM well pump, a 3/4hp shallow well pump, and some miscellaneous parts for a control panel.
Now, my well pump takes its sweet time filling 200 gallons and the shallow well pump draws off those to pump up the pressure tanks. When the water level drops below 175 gallons, the well pump kicks in and cycles on and off (timer relay) 10 min / 10 min.
Here's the point - the well works FINE, no drilling was required - but by slow-pumping, the following has happened:
** Eliminated stress on the aquifer at that point
** Less agitation means less iron bacteria coming in
** The un-pressurized holding takes are aerated, killing remainder of iron bacteria
** A large paper filter after the pressure pump gets more + sediment
** The water softener finishes the job
** I have never had water this clear - no rust anywhere
** I saved at least $17,070.00 plus huge electric bills
The same thing happened to my neighbor 6 months later. He got a similar quote, I put in a similar system for him, he got similar results.
I got all my well parts from Dean Bennett Supply www.deanbennett.com (horrid web site, great people, best prices). They will even consult with you free of charge on setting up this kind of system. Mine has been running for almost a year.
You could start a business doing this and never sleep.