Furniture, Wood and Cabinetry Finishing - HELP-staining new Bath. Cabs - OPTIONS???

New to staining. Tested a ton of Minwax colors on my samples, using conditioner first, nothing was soaking in. Want a dark cherry color finish when done. Ended up with Old Masters penetrating stain (cedar) after visiting a local store. That was close to the color I wanted on the sample.

I put 1 coat on the wood. Here are the problems:

1. I am dealing with 2 woods with my cabinets - fronts are Eastern Oregon hardwood maple (very hard, very dense). The rest of the cabinets (shells, drawers, etc.) are birch/maple (thin layers glued together, veneer? I think). The maple ended up being a different color than the other wood after staining. How to get them to match...?

2. The birch/maple mix soaked up the stain quite well, and *fairly* evenly (although it could be better, but it won't be that visible in the end). The hard maple drawer fronts and doors didn't soak up stain quite as well, but that was okay, I figured I would just have to do an extra coat on the fronts. The maple looked fine when I put the stain on (first using thinner and wiping off extra), although still didn't soak much up,but after they dried they now appear a bit splotchy and show some rag/brush marks. Is there anything I can do about getting rid of those marks? I found a different stain color that, when applied over this 1st coat, looks beautiful. But the marks still show through. ???

3. Also, there are some fingerprints that are showing up since I applied the first coat of stain. Can anything be done now or is it too late? What to do to prevent fingerprints in the rest of the pieces? I am already wiping with paint thinner.

3. Assuming I can get rid of the rag/brush marks and splotchiness, and get the 2 woods to match, then what do I use after the stain? The local store sold me water-based polyurethane. But I have been reading about a sealer. Is this necessary between the stain and the poly? What is a sealer - what is it called in the store, and what would I want to buy if necessary? please help! I'm so clueless but I have good attention to detail and want to do this right - it's our new beautiful master bathroom with custom cabinets/furniture.

THANKS!!! (sorry for long post).

Welcome to the forums

Sanding and/or scrubbing with paint thinner is the best way to remove the fingerprints, may help with the blotchy areas. It is always difficult to apply a second coat of stain because the first coat prevents the second from soaking in.

Sanding sealer is an oil base product [similiar to varnish] that is used for the first coat under varnish. It shouldn't be used under most polys or latex poly.
Latex poly is probably the most user friendly. just be sure the stain is good and dry before applying. Expect to apply 3 coats, sanding lightly between coats of poly.

Thanks! When you say "scrubbing" do you mean with a scotch pad, or just rags? Not sure how hard I can be on the wood. I applied a 2nd darker stain as a test, and it looks great, but I want to get rid of the marks first so I don't seal them in!

So, do I understand you correctly in that I should be okay putting my water-based poly (I think it is an acrylic poly) on top of my stain, after the stain has thoroughly dried? I plan to carefully brush the poly on.

Thanks!!

Welcome to the forums

Sanding and/or scrubbing with paint thinner is the best way to remove the fingerprints, may help with the blotchy areas. It is always difficult to apply a second coat of stain because the first coat prevents the second from soaking in.

Sanding sealer is an oil base product [similiar to varnish] that is used for the first coat under varnish. It shouldn't be used under most polys or latex poly.
Latex poly is probably the most user friendly. just be sure the stain is good and dry before applying. Expect to apply 3 coats, sanding lightly between coats of poly.

Scrubbing may not have been the best choice of words. Basically what I meant wash to rub/wash it with a thinner soaked rag. If real stubborn a scotch pad or sandpaper [always go with the direction of the grain] may be needed. Just remember the more you remove the more it will take to get the color back.

I seldom use latex poly but it is made to go over oil base stains. Since oil and water don't mix it is very important for the stain to be dry. If for some reason you get noticable brush marks in the poly - sand and add floetrol to the poly for the next coat.

The two woods will tend to stain differently because they are different. An alternative solution may be to consider the products that have the stain in the finish, so that it is the equivalent of painting because the color and the finish are applied simulateneously.

The two woods will tend to stain differently because they are different. An alternative solution may be to consider the products that have the stain in the finish, so that it is the equivalent of painting because the color and the finish are applied simulateneously.

Thanks for your suggestion. That is my backup plan if I can't scrub out the marks and get the 2nd coat of stain to look good. Any tips on application? I hear it's hard to make it look good with a brush, but that is what I would be using. Also, any tips on which product to use? Sounds like Minwax polyshades is a no-no, but what is recommended?

Wash with paint thinner and #00 steel wool. Apply a toner spray to even out the color.

Any tips on application? I hear it's hard to make it look good with a brush, but that is what I would be using. Also, any tips on which product to use? Sounds like Minwax polyshades is a no-no, but what is recommended?




Minwax polyshades [or any other tinted varnish/poly] isn't hard to apply BUT care needs to be used to apply it evenly. Any lap marks will likely show. Also if one area has a heavy coat and one a light coat there will be a noticable difference in color. Unless I am mistaken polyshades only comes in oil base.

<<<<<<<The maple ended up being a different color than the other wood after staining. How to get them to match...?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

The above advice for using Polyshades to even the color out is good for after-the-fact stuff. Use the Polyshades on the lighter wood, regular old Polyurethane on the dark. You can, instead, try using a shop towel soaking wet with naptha to rub the darker stained stuff to a lighter color-- it will redissolve some of the stain.

To avoid this problem in the future, know that veneer is porous much more so than hardwood (even if it is the same specie). In our cabinet shop and dark stains, I always sand the veneer goods at least one grit higher than the hardwood, two for maple (I do the hardwood up to 120 grit and the veneer at 150 then 180). I do not use washcoats, as they just don't allow the wood to color properly. We also try to avoid really, really dark stains on maple and birch. Medium and light stains are usually fine.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< The birch/maple mix soaked up the stain quite well, and *fairly* evenly (although it could be better, but it won't be that visible in the end). The hard maple drawer fronts and doors didn't soak up stain quite as well, but that was okay, I figured I would just have to do an extra coat on the fronts. The maple looked fine when I put the stain on (first using thinner and wiping off extra), although still didn't soak much up,but after they dried they now appear a bit splotchy and show some rag/brush marks. Is there anything I can do about getting rid of those marks? I found a different stain color that, when applied over this 1st coat, looks beautiful. But the marks still show through. ???>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Try cleaning the stained pieces with a shop towel soaked with Naptha (it's basically really strong mineral spirits), and should do the trick. Should redissolve the unwanted stain (ie, the marks). May further lighten the wood, just know.


<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<3. Also, there are some fingerprints that are showing up since I applied the first coat of stain. Can anything be done now or is it too late? What to do to prevent fingerprints in the rest of the pieces? I am already wiping with paint thinner.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

Same as above- use a solvent wipe.

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<3. Assuming I can get rid of the rag/brush marks and splotchiness, and get the 2 woods to match, then what do I use after the stain? The local store sold me water-based polyurethane. But I have been reading about a sealer. Is this necessary between the stain and the poly? What is a sealer - what is it called in the store, and what would I want to buy if necessary? please help! I'm so clueless but I have good attention to detail and want to do this right - it's our new beautiful master bathroom with custom cabinets/furniture.>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

IMO take the waterbase back, get your money back, and get regular old polyurethane. It's more durable. Just stinks more and dries slow as Christmas.
Thin the first coat about 30% with Naptha or mineral spirits (ignore the label on the back that says "do not thin", it thins just fine), lay it on medium with a bristle brush. Allow to cure overnight with temp as close to 70F as you can get it. Sand with 220 grit until it feels smooth (paper will clog a bit-- scrape it clean, but toss it out if it loses it's "cut", and intentionally use up a lot of paper, remember that fresh paper = nicer finish). Once smoothed with sandpaper, apply another coat full strength. Allow to dry overnight. If you want higher build, scuff sand and do it again.

Hope this helps.

Thank you all for your help. This forum is great!! One last question - I have to stain the new doors in our addition and we're hoping for the same-ish color as the bathroom cabinets - dark cherry. The doors are alder. Any tips for doing this, since i haven't started yet? I think my current plan is something like this:

1. clean/scrub door thoroughly with thinner (lots of fingerprints on it)
2. rub on a light coat of stain (this wood really soaks up the stain)
3. depending on how dark, 1 coat may be good
4. wait for a few days for stain to thoroughly dry, then apply an oil-based polyurethane (probably 3 coats, sanding in between with 220 grit)

Good?????

Denatored alchol is better than paint thinner for removing fingerprinsts and such. IMO it is better to sand most of that off and then wipe with thinner. ALWAYS sand in the direction of the grain [cross sanding will leave scratches that may show]

The stain should be dry enough to coat within 24 hrs [unless it is in cold damp weather]

Sounds like a plan