Residential & Commercial Security - Locks, Keys & Dead Bolts - High-security locks

Hi all,

I just bought a new home, and just for peace of mind I threw new residential-grade Schlage deadbolts on the front and garage doors.

Long-term, I'd like to replace all the doors. The garage door definitely needs to be replaced, as it is an interior-grade door. I'd also like to replace the front door, simply because it's a rather ugly metal door and good-looking wood replacements are fairly inexpensive. I'm replacing the five interior doors for the same reason.

On my new doors, I'd like to put something that's a bit more secure than the standard Kwiksets or Schlages you get at Home Depot. I've looked into Abloy, Medeco, Sargent and Mul-T-Lock, but all of those seem to be a bit price-prohibitive.

I think I'd like to go with Schlage's Everest Primus line for exterior doors, and just use normal Everest cylinders (which are cheaper, but can be operated by the same Primus keys) for the three interior bedroom doors that I want to be able to lock. Additionally, I would REALLY like to put mortise locks on the garage door and the front door. I realize they're expensive, but so are the handlesets that would be the other option.

The biggest problem I'm having is that apart from Medeco (where my local locksmith wanted $800 per door for keyed-alike mortise locks with Medeco m3 cylinders, and that didn't even include installation), finding local dealers seems difficult. In particular, everyone carries run-of-the-mill Schlage hardware but finding someone who carries the Primus stuff seems close to impossible, and I'm not having much luck finding the L-series mortise locks at area lock smiths either. Would very much apprecciate some pointers here.

Also, if there are other high-security locks I should be looking at, please let me know.

Thanks!

Welcome to the forums stian!

Most places will not stock the mortise locks unless they do a lot of commercial work. If locksmiths cannot order for you look for a builders hardware store which should be able to get you some. www.schlage.com has some info. Here is their customer service info:

Schlage Customer Service
2315 Briargate Parkway
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
Phone: 800/847-1864 (press 2)
Fax: 800/452-0663

If you cannot find anything local, there are online sellers. Be aware that Primus is often regionally restricted so you would have to return to the same dealer for extra keys or cylinders.

Welcome to the forums stian!

Most places will not stock the mortise locks unless they do a lot of commercial work. If locksmiths cannot order for you look for a builders hardware store which should be able to get you some. www.schlage.com has some info. Here is their customer service info:

Schlage Customer Service
2315 Briargate Parkway
Colorado Springs, CO 80920
Phone: 800/847-1864 (press 2)
Fax: 800/452-0663

If you cannot find anything local, there are online sellers. Be aware that Primus is often regionally restricted so you would have to return to the same dealer for extra keys or cylinders.


Thanks for the info. The restricted dealer network and the patented keys is actually one of the things I really like about the Schlage. It enables me to give out a key to a visitor, colleague etc and not have to worry about whether they got it duplicated before returning it to me. It's a bit of an extra inconvenience if I ever lose a key, but I plan to get a few extras right off the bat and store them in my safe deposit box.

I've already tried Schlage's customer service number, and they just referred me to some regional company in Orlando that handles all of South Florida. However, I know for a fact that there are Everest Primus dealers closer than that -- the hunt continues. Thanks for the information, though!

Hi Stian,

Where in Florida are you? I'm in Key West, but can probably suggest a closer location than Orlando. Our suppliers, and we use several, are all over the state. I am guessing you were refered to Clark Security. If you are Farther north, there is a company called U.S. Lock and they have a location in Jacksonville. Farther south, try Locks Co. in Miami, or Armstrong in Tampa/St. Pete area. I hope I didn't just goof with this info, I don't want to upset the delicate balance of the DIY board. I'm just passing along who we buy from here in Florida.

cuedude :cheshire:

I appreciate the reply. I'm between West Palm Beach and Boca Raton. I did contact US Lock, but they sent a guy out who barely spoke English and told me that it wasn't possible to do a master key system, so I wasn't very impressed with them. On a more positive note, I did find one dealer in Tampa whose customer service on the phone impressed me enough that it may be worth a road trip across Alligator Alley to do business with them.

Either way, thanks for the heads up!

Hi Stian,

Let me assure you a master system is possible with a primas system. So I'm guessing the person sent was very unfamiliar with primas. Good luck with your project. It may seem like you're going in circles now, but when you get what you want, you will be much happier for your effort.

cuedude

The person they sent me was very unfamiliar with locks. And, for that matter, with English. As I said, not very impressive. :P

I think I'm going to go with the lock smith I found on the west coast. May have to drive a few hours to pick up my order, but it's worth it I think.

Thanks for all the input

Stian,
If I might make a suggestion...

While I understand that price is a big factor in your decision to purchase deadbolts, let me also try to emphasize that Schlage locks are not as impressive in terms of quality as they try to appear. "Nothing stops a Schlage?" BS...sufficient force from a 2' crowbar is more than enough for their line of locks.

I would strongly suggest doing a side-by-side comparison of Schlage locks versus Medeco. Schlages are absolutely flimsy. There is no real "armor" behind their lock at all, no real protection from attacks from things like an ice pick. The overall construction is not impressive and susceptible to a simple attack from a power drill. I am surprised they are graded ANSI 2.

Medeco Maxum deadbolts on the other hand are a world apart from Schlages. The deadbolt latch is heavily beefed up and the bolt itself is much sturdier. They have metal sleeves that fit over cylinder to prevent ice pick type attacks and they are so well constructed that if you did have a drill you're going to be there for a while trying to get through it. It will NOT give way easily at all. On top of that, Maxum deadbolts are more secure from those with lockpicking skills because of their 6-bitted lock that is angled in various positions versus traditional 5-bitted locks (which Schlage uses).

Abloy itself does not make a deadbolt that I'm aware of; that's where their Medeco company comes in.

Now as far as the price, I too started out by going to local dealers but they were asking around $300 for each deadbolt! Ridiculous! If you search the internet, you can find a number of reputable online retailers and you can buy a Maxum for around $130 each.

Hi txnoob,

I did look at Medeco, and price was the main deterrent. As far as forced entry (crowbar), I would think protection there is more a function of the door than of the lock.

Let me emphasize I'm NOT looking at Schlage's normal line, but at their Everest Primus line, which has 6 main bittings (rather than the 5 on their residential line) and a second set of bittings for a sidebar -- much the same way that Medeco does, but using the second set of bittings in place of the angled cuts.

As far as buying the Maxum deadbolts online -- I thought part of the selling point of the Medecos was that you were supposed to have to go to an authorized dealer and present identification in order to obtain key blanks and such. If you can order these locks over the Internet (including keys that could then possibly be recut as bump keys etc), it seems to me that would raise some concern over their highly-touted "patent-protected" security from key duplication?

Hi txnoob,

I did look at Medeco, and price was the main deterrent. As far as forced entry (crowbar), I would think protection there is more a function of the door than of the lock.

Let me emphasize I'm NOT looking at Schlage's normal line, but at their Everest Primus line, which has 6 main bittings (rather than the 5 on their residential line) and a second set of bittings for a sidebar -- much the same way that Medeco does, but using the second set of bittings in place of the angled cuts.

As far as buying the Maxum deadbolts online -- I thought part of the selling point of the Medecos was that you were supposed to have to go to an authorized dealer and present identification in order to obtain key blanks and such. If you can order these locks over the Internet (including keys that could then possibly be recut as bump keys etc), it seems to me that would raise some concern over their highly-touted "patent-protected" security from key duplication?


Anyone can order key blanks...perhaps you are referring to obtaining a copy of an existing key? True, most internet dealers you can't just walk in and make a copy of a key. You can send them off the Medeco directly to get a copy made. For me, it isn't that big of a deal. I have over a dozen spare keys, so chances of losing them all are quite slim. Besides, you can't just go into any keymaker and get a copy made...Medeco keys take special (and expensive) equipment to duplicate and chances are most people won't think to look and figure that out.

I've just returned to this post, and see some new ideas have shown up. Let me add my 2 cents worth. First of all, shiejr is correct about the drill attack on a schlage lock. I know, I drill alot of them. And not only the cylinder, but the lock body as well. Secondly, and in defense of schlage, the side bar is a good feature. It's regionally available. The everest, I must admit, I am not familiar with.

Medeco is a really beefy lock. Let me point out some of the features, besides the key thing. There are little ball bearings inserted in the bolt holes. These are hardened, and their function is to make it really difficult to drill the bolt out. Secondly, there is a piece of what is known as hard plate built right into the face of the lock. Hard plate is what the doors of quality safes are made of. Ever try to drill one? You can't with regular drill bits. Next, after you find the correct bit(s), you will probably need what is called a drill rig. This is a special piece of equipment needed to exert enough pressure to penitrate the plate. Hard plate didn't get it's name for nothing. I could go on here, but won't. I say, get the Medeco, M3 version. It's pattent is brand new, and incorporates the side bar feature with the Medeco angled key bitting. Yes, it's costly, but how much is your family worth? And as far as a door, I'd replace your door with a quality steel door. All the others can be gotten past.

Now, this just came to mind. The door frame. This is where the weakness comes in. Get a reinforcing plate installed. These beef the frame up, as they are steel, usually they are hidden from the front, run almost the height of the door, and are fastened to the inner framing of the door. Usually a stud, or concrete. Pretty good for stopping the average gorilla.

I'll climb down off the soapbox. I just wanted to recommend the medeco m3.

cuedude

One thing people fail to realize is that the typical door is one of the stronger points on a house. Adding a high-security lock to a standard door would make one of the more secure entry points...well, more secure. Windows are far easier to get in. Window locks are frequently next to useless. A house with siding is far easier to get in - cut through the siding, the sheathing, and the drywall and you're in. Even brick can be smashed.

Basically, it comes down to these logical statements.

1) If an intruder will be discouraged by the presence of a high-security lock, they will also be discouraged by a typical residential medium-security lock.

2) If an intruder cannot get in through the door, they will seek other means in.

So what this means is that if somebody really wants to get in, they will. While neither statement is 100% true, they are highly probable. Is there a small subset of people that intends to get in to a facility, is capable of circumventing or otherwise mitigating a Schlage deadbolt, but is discouraged by a Medeco lock and also does not seek other means inside? Probably.

If you don't live in a fortress, one of the best approaches to security is going to be doing something about a potential intrusion rather than preventing it. While I understand that high-security locks are good at preventing intrusion, electronic systems are cheaper and also discourage such things.

I was going through the same delima. That is why I went with a digital door lock that has a remote. It look's good and you can drill it. But you still will not to break in. But it is like all locks, If you are gonna break the door down then yes you will get in. The lock is pick proof and keyless. And why use a key just use a remote or RFID key's. Need some more info I can tell you where I got it and you can take a look for your self.

Schlage are decent locks, not what they used to be... Medeco has always impressed me because whenever anyone came up with a system to defeat them, they would re-engineer
You mention "bump keys" but I've never heard of any working on Medeco. About the only weakness is I've seen some lock up due to seasonal changes, so occassional lubrication (tri-flo or silicone spray) recomended. Their deadbolts are expensive, but hold one in your hands... very solid and features like a double cylinder that turns into a single ... thus obeying fire codes when someone is home.. but extra safe when you go on vacation. You can choose keys that are duplicatable or ones that need authorization, and they had one series which the keys could not be duplicated, you had to order the number you wanted when you bought the lock (not sure if that is still around)

George

High Security locks dont have to be expensive....have a look at Bilock....there are dealers in Florida. Prices are competitive with Schlage or Medeco and better quality and made in USA.


http://www.bilock.com

First of all, shiejr is correct about the drill attack on a schlage lock. I know, I drill alot of them.

Secondly, there is a piece of what is known as hard plate built right into the face of the lock. Hard plate is what the doors of quality safes are made of. Ever try to drill one? You can't with regular drill bits.

Next, after you find the correct bit(s), you will probably need what is called a drill rig. This is a special piece of equipment needed to exert enough pressure to penitrate the plate. Hard plate didn't get it's name for nothing.

I say, get the Medeco, M3 version. It's pattent is brand new, and incorporates the side bar feature with the Medeco angled key bitting.

Are you speaking of drilling normal schlage locks, not the primus locks?

Hard plate is in the Schlage Everest Primus, Corbin Emhart, DOM ix-10, ASSA Twin 6000, Evva 3KS, etc. Some lock's housings are even made of hardened steel (like the Abloy Protec) The doors of quality safes contain layers of hard plate, but are not made out of hard plate.

Drill rig for a Medeco? Hahahahaha. I suppose you'll tell me I need a thermic lance for an Abloy! These "hard plates" in Medecos are nothing. You can simply extract them. The hard plate (actually they are just rods) aren't nearly as thick as those plates in safes. Yes, I have sucessfully drilled a Medeco lock.

I say don't go for the m3. They're waaay to expensive. If you want a Medeco, get a Medeco biaxial. The patent expired, but Medeco dealers (the ones I have talked to) still won't cut you keys without the keycard.

<quote:Secondly, there is a piece of what is known as hard plate built right into the face of the lock. Hard plate is what the doors of quality safes are made of. Ever try to drill one? You can't with regular drill bits.

Next, after you find the correct bit(s), you will probably need what is called a drill rig. This is a special piece of equipment needed to exert enough pressure to penitrate the plate. Hard plate didn't get it's name for nothing.

I say, get the Medeco, M3 version. It's pattent is brand new, and incorporates the side bar feature with the Medeco angled key bitting. [/QUOTE]

Are you speaking of drilling normal schlage locks, not the primus locks?

Hard plate is in the Schlage Everest Primus, Corbin Emhart, DOM ix-10, ASSA Twin 6000, Evva 3KS, etc. Some lock's housings are even made of hardened steel (like the Abloy Protec) The doors of quality safes contain layers of hard plate, but are not made out of hard plate.

Drill rig for a Medeco? Hahahahaha. I suppose you'll tell me I need a thermic lance for an Abloy! These "hard plates" in Medecos are nothing. You can simply extract them. The hard plate (actually they are just rods) aren't nearly as thick as those plates in safes. Yes, I have sucessfully drilled a Medeco lock.

I say don't go for the m3. They're waaay to expensive. If you want a Medeco, get a Medeco biaxial. The patent expired, but Medeco dealers (the ones I have talked to) still won't cut you keys without the keycard.>Quote

Hi n2oah,

Yes, I did mention a drill rig for a Medeco. My point was that your average person will find it difficult to add enough pressure to drill it. I have a hard time with my small frame, but I drill them as well. And don't forget that the lock's location can also make it difficult for someone my size. I truely did not mean I set up a drill rig for a cam lock or something.

And I agree that the hard plate used in Medeco locks is easily gotten around. Most people do not know where it is, or how to remove it to get it out of the way.

Hard plate is just high carbon steel. When drilled, it heats up normal drill bits, taking the point off the bit. I won't go into how to drill it, that's better left unsaid at this point. You are correct about the layers with in quality safe doors. But those can also be gotten around, as I believe you know.

The main point of this topic was to help decide which way to go with a deadbolt, not anything else. My appoligies to everyone for aiding the topic to stray off sbject. However, I still believe the Medeco M3 is the way to go. With a brand new patent, keys will only be available from Medeco, for the next 15 years or so. How long will it be before Biaxial keys can be gotten from your average Locksmith? They can be had now. It's never been requested, but I'll cut one for you today. The point is, it is available now, without any legal ramefications.

I say lets take this topic off the board from here on. It's just adding frustration to those interested.

cuedude

Medeco and Primus and Multlock are all "nice products" and for what they are worth and where they are manufactured, certainly a worthwile investment.

But some people would prefer a product manufactured in the USA.

Bilock is one such product that is made locally and very price competitive with the others mentioned. The locks are weather resistant (perfect for Florida) and keys cannot be duplicated by any readily available duplicator as in the case of the aforementioned brands. Keys are only able to be produced as an original and are only available through selected dealers or the factory.

It is a unique product that is available for almost all applications in the US market and it is possible to have 16 million key codes per keyway. Colour coordinated keyheads are available in 21 colors with 3 pieces giving a possible 9000 color combinations.

As yet (25 years) the cylinders have not been picked (manipulated) and are very competitively priced compared to the aforementioned brands.

With limited availability for key cutting options, your security is further enhanced. The product comes in a quick change core design, providing speedy and economical rekeying options for the service technicians.

All in all, a good product. And certainly worth investigating. And supporting locally made products.