Bricks, Masonry, Asphalt and Concrete - Need help with a paver/retaining wall project.
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Zora7404
01-27-06, 07:02 AM
I am planning on doing a 20 ft walkway and a 17 ft half kidney shaped deck landing/patio with pavers. Here are my questions...
1.The patio will reguire a 1 foot retaining wall around half of the curved perimeter. Which do I do first, the retaining wall or the patio. Are there any relatively inexpensive retaining walls that are easy to do and will arrange in a curved shape?
2. I have to put a step at the bottom of the deck steps. DO I do the step first and put pavers on top or do the pavers and put the step on top of them. If I use retaining wall block, do I use an adhesive to secure the paver to the top of the block?
3. There are so many different types of pavers out there. What type is recommended for ease of installation, durability, and of course, cost. I have found poured concrete pavers about 1.5 inches thick, brick pavers, and thicker concrete pavers. Like I said above, I am doing a walkway and a kidney shaped patio, so I will need to do alot of cuts and some of them will have to be curved cuts(not sure if that is even possible). There is also an area against the house where the gutter drain runs into PVC pipe and runs underground. I am considering framing it with a poured 12 inch concrete pad to make life easier.
I am leaning toward an octagon shaped interlocking concrete paver. Will this make things more difficult with cuts? Should I stick with a square or rectangular shape?
I hope I made sense hear. Please let me know if I can clarify any of my issues.
Thanks in advance.
1.The patio will reguire a 1 foot retaining wall around half of the curved perimeter. Which do I do first, the retaining wall or the patio. Are there any relatively inexpensive retaining walls that are easy to do and will arrange in a curved shape?
2. I have to put a step at the bottom of the deck steps. DO I do the step first and put pavers on top or do the pavers and put the step on top of them. If I use retaining wall block, do I use an adhesive to secure the paver to the top of the block?
3. There are so many different types of pavers out there. What type is recommended for ease of installation, durability, and of course, cost. I have found poured concrete pavers about 1.5 inches thick, brick pavers, and thicker concrete pavers. Like I said above, I am doing a walkway and a kidney shaped patio, so I will need to do alot of cuts and some of them will have to be curved cuts(not sure if that is even possible). There is also an area against the house where the gutter drain runs into PVC pipe and runs underground. I am considering framing it with a poured 12 inch concrete pad to make life easier.
I am leaning toward an octagon shaped interlocking concrete paver. Will this make things more difficult with cuts? Should I stick with a square or rectangular shape?
I hope I made sense hear. Please let me know if I can clarify any of my issues.
Thanks in advance.
syakoban
01-27-06, 08:26 AM
I'm not sure I fully understand your project but I can tell you the following from experience...
Pavers done correctly are not a casual project. If you don't care about doing them correctly expect uneveness and a sagging and shifting wall and step. You can spot a quick job because of issues like that. A good job won't sag, won't separate and will remain level and pitched properly.
Paver projects start from the lowest point and work up. Retaining walls and steps don't sit on pavers but have to be set at a proper depth below grade and worked back to grade and final height. You have to know your starting depths and work towards your final height.
I recommend you do a lot more research before jumping in. You may decide it's not for you or you'll have a much better understanding of the task. A kidney shape is a tough first project. http://www.icpi.org is the industry web site.
Pavers need to sit on a properly constructed compacted base of proper depth using a plate compactor. They are then set in a bedding layer of sand or stone dust and compacted again. As far as the step, usually steps have cap blocks that your patio should finish flush with, not on top of.
If you want to be up to current trends, octagon shaped interlocking concrete pavers are out of style - there's so many other options now. I do not recommend big box stores for buying pavers - go to a landscape or mason's supply. You get what you pay for so cheap pavers have all the issues of being cheap. The real cost of pavers is the labor, so hopefully your budget will allow you to get a good quality product that will last and make your effort worthwhile.
Curved cuts can only be made by hand with a lot of effort and are not done. You can make curves work with angled cuts and wedge shaped gaps.
Some retaining wall products dry stack and don't require adhesive, but I would definitely use a good quality masonry adhesive.
Good Luck! :thumbup:
Pavers done correctly are not a casual project. If you don't care about doing them correctly expect uneveness and a sagging and shifting wall and step. You can spot a quick job because of issues like that. A good job won't sag, won't separate and will remain level and pitched properly.
Paver projects start from the lowest point and work up. Retaining walls and steps don't sit on pavers but have to be set at a proper depth below grade and worked back to grade and final height. You have to know your starting depths and work towards your final height.
I recommend you do a lot more research before jumping in. You may decide it's not for you or you'll have a much better understanding of the task. A kidney shape is a tough first project. http://www.icpi.org is the industry web site.
Pavers need to sit on a properly constructed compacted base of proper depth using a plate compactor. They are then set in a bedding layer of sand or stone dust and compacted again. As far as the step, usually steps have cap blocks that your patio should finish flush with, not on top of.
If you want to be up to current trends, octagon shaped interlocking concrete pavers are out of style - there's so many other options now. I do not recommend big box stores for buying pavers - go to a landscape or mason's supply. You get what you pay for so cheap pavers have all the issues of being cheap. The real cost of pavers is the labor, so hopefully your budget will allow you to get a good quality product that will last and make your effort worthwhile.
Curved cuts can only be made by hand with a lot of effort and are not done. You can make curves work with angled cuts and wedge shaped gaps.
Some retaining wall products dry stack and don't require adhesive, but I would definitely use a good quality masonry adhesive.
Good Luck! :thumbup:
Concretemasonry
01-28-06, 11:03 AM
Your project is a perfect one for a combination of interlocking pavers and segmental retaining wall units. Often, a manufacturer makes both products so matching or complimentry colors/blends are possible. Look at the major retaining wall sites (Allan Block, Anchor Wall Systems, Keystone and Versalok) for examples of applications. The Versalok site had a number of good step examples.
Pavers and retaining wall block are very compatible since both are laid on a compacted base and no concrete or mortar is used. Curves are not a problem.
You would build the retaining wall and steps first, permitting a solid defined area for the paver patio. For a patio, 60 mm (2 3/8") pavers are adequate, but 80 mm are not much more costly.
Pavers may be cut with a hand splitter (rental possible) or a power saw. All cuts can be straight since they are not long enough to cause problem with gaps. The entire patio must have sand vibrated into the joints to increase the strength. The patio should have an edge restraint (steel, plastic or aluminum) to increase the strength and stability.
The only place an adhesive may be used is to adhere a cap unit to the retaining wall or step hold steps in contact. Use a flexible silicone adhesive/caulk and not a more rigid "concrete-type" caulk.
Good luck with your project
Dick
Pavers and retaining wall block are very compatible since both are laid on a compacted base and no concrete or mortar is used. Curves are not a problem.
You would build the retaining wall and steps first, permitting a solid defined area for the paver patio. For a patio, 60 mm (2 3/8") pavers are adequate, but 80 mm are not much more costly.
Pavers may be cut with a hand splitter (rental possible) or a power saw. All cuts can be straight since they are not long enough to cause problem with gaps. The entire patio must have sand vibrated into the joints to increase the strength. The patio should have an edge restraint (steel, plastic or aluminum) to increase the strength and stability.
The only place an adhesive may be used is to adhere a cap unit to the retaining wall or step hold steps in contact. Use a flexible silicone adhesive/caulk and not a more rigid "concrete-type" caulk.
Good luck with your project
Dick