Walls and Ceilings - What constitutes good drywall hanging?
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FizorZed
01-22-06, 10:03 AM
This is a kind of follow up to my last post, "What would you charge..."
To all of you who hand and tape drywall, what, in your view, constitutes good drywall installation. While I feel i did an adequate job, I have nothing to compare my work to so for all I know whoever comes into mud and tape will go white with horror. I know that the drywall screws are supposed to be driven into the surface a bit to allow for filling and that your are supposed to leave a slight gap between seams (which i did on most but not on all).
What is the dividing line between a good job and one that will require a skilled hand to make beautiful?
Thanks again!
To all of you who hand and tape drywall, what, in your view, constitutes good drywall installation. While I feel i did an adequate job, I have nothing to compare my work to so for all I know whoever comes into mud and tape will go white with horror. I know that the drywall screws are supposed to be driven into the surface a bit to allow for filling and that your are supposed to leave a slight gap between seams (which i did on most but not on all).
What is the dividing line between a good job and one that will require a skilled hand to make beautiful?
Thanks again!
MudSlinger
01-22-06, 11:05 AM
A good job will have the following:
1. Tight joints with no gaps
2. Screws recessed below the surface. (run a mud knife over the screw, if it "tings" it isn't deep enough)
3. No gaping holes, and only a few outlets cut too big.
4. Staggered butt joints (so there are no crosses like an intersection in the road)
5. Adhesive was used.
6. No factory "edges" meeting at outside corners.
7. Clean butt joints (no ragged chewed up edges)
8. Enough screws installed.
9. Joints are even with each other.
10.Corner bead installed so if a knife is held from the bead edge on the outside corner to a point 6" in on the wall, there is a gap for joint compound
(* I ALWAYS recommend that a person that is doing thier own hanging, lets the finisher install the corner bead. Everybody is usually much happier. If yours is done though, just leave it. If it needs to be redone it will be, and if not - Great Job!! :)
Although these are the bigger things, where joints are is also important (for example: if there is a flat horizontal joint at 10', and the guy finishing is using a mud box on stilts, it is very hard to hold the box that high and apply the right pressure against the wall; hence hanging the room so the first sheets' joint is lower makes finishing easier.
No job is ever "perfect" from a hanging standpoint either, but minimizing the faults makes things go that much easier. (When a 6 person crew is hanging a 3500 square foot house in 2-1/2 days, something is going to be "awkward")
I'm sure that your job is fine as long as you were carefull. People who are doing thier own house usually try to do it well, and because you are "here", you have cared enough to research what to do. :thumbup:
I hope this helps
1. Tight joints with no gaps
2. Screws recessed below the surface. (run a mud knife over the screw, if it "tings" it isn't deep enough)
3. No gaping holes, and only a few outlets cut too big.
4. Staggered butt joints (so there are no crosses like an intersection in the road)
5. Adhesive was used.
6. No factory "edges" meeting at outside corners.
7. Clean butt joints (no ragged chewed up edges)
8. Enough screws installed.
9. Joints are even with each other.
10.Corner bead installed so if a knife is held from the bead edge on the outside corner to a point 6" in on the wall, there is a gap for joint compound
(* I ALWAYS recommend that a person that is doing thier own hanging, lets the finisher install the corner bead. Everybody is usually much happier. If yours is done though, just leave it. If it needs to be redone it will be, and if not - Great Job!! :)
Although these are the bigger things, where joints are is also important (for example: if there is a flat horizontal joint at 10', and the guy finishing is using a mud box on stilts, it is very hard to hold the box that high and apply the right pressure against the wall; hence hanging the room so the first sheets' joint is lower makes finishing easier.
No job is ever "perfect" from a hanging standpoint either, but minimizing the faults makes things go that much easier. (When a 6 person crew is hanging a 3500 square foot house in 2-1/2 days, something is going to be "awkward")
I'm sure that your job is fine as long as you were carefull. People who are doing thier own house usually try to do it well, and because you are "here", you have cared enough to research what to do. :thumbup:
I hope this helps
XSleeper
01-22-06, 12:47 PM
In addition to the things Mr. MudSlinger mentioned, I'd have to add that good drywall installation also involves good planning, and selecting of the right length drywall for the right job. There's nothing worse than having butt joints all over a room that has 11 ft walls. Why couldn't they have just used 12' sheetrock? Or even having a butt joint on a wall that is less than 8 ft long! There's no reason for it! Another example... a long wall with 2 windows might be best hung by placing the butt joints directly above and below the "center" of the windows so that you would have 4 very short butt joints that would be quick to tape, rather than having them elsewhere where they would be full length. The same might be said for certain pieces that would better be stood up vertically than installed horizontally. Often, finishers are more particular (critical) when it comes to the hanging. That's because finishers know what would have made their life easier... "If they'd only done it this way..."
Some people who hang their own drywall try too hard to use up every little scrap somewhere, creating a "patchwork quilt" of sorts. Drywall finishers prefer longer sheets and less butt joints- it makes their life easier and will likely result in a better job.
Some people who hang their own drywall try too hard to use up every little scrap somewhere, creating a "patchwork quilt" of sorts. Drywall finishers prefer longer sheets and less butt joints- it makes their life easier and will likely result in a better job.
FizorZed
01-22-06, 02:35 PM
In reply to Mud and XSleeper:
1. Tight joints with no gaps
- Most are pretty tight. I went off of a source that recommended an 1/8th inch gap between joints but perhaps that was incorrect.
2. Screws recessed below the surface. (run a mud knife over the screw, if it "tings" it isn't deep enough)
- That part I made sure of though I have plenty of punctures that necessitated a second screw to correct.
3. No gaping holes, and only a few outlets cut too big.
- Only one outlet that was cut to large. The rest are snug.
4. Staggered butt joints (so there are no crosses like an intersection in the road)
- There are no four way intersections. Check.
5. Adhesive was used.
- I didn't use glue. Didn't know about the need to use that until this forum.
6. No factory "edges" meeting at outside corners.
- I have only 1 outside corner but am unsure of what you mean. How do I avoid factory corner intersection?
7. Clean butt joints (no ragged chewed up edges)
- I am in the process of cleaning up any raged edges with a knife.
8. Enough screws installed.
- I installed screws approx. every 6 in. To much? To few?
9. Joints are even with each other.
- I did my best with this one. The house is very old and not entirely square anymore. I used a level to make sure the sheets were level horizontally which means that vertically some of the seams are a bit wider than I would have liked.
XSleeper: my room is 14' by 12' and I could only carry 8' sheets up the stairs so there are seams on the walls. I did stager the joints however to minimize that aspect.
1. Tight joints with no gaps
- Most are pretty tight. I went off of a source that recommended an 1/8th inch gap between joints but perhaps that was incorrect.
2. Screws recessed below the surface. (run a mud knife over the screw, if it "tings" it isn't deep enough)
- That part I made sure of though I have plenty of punctures that necessitated a second screw to correct.
3. No gaping holes, and only a few outlets cut too big.
- Only one outlet that was cut to large. The rest are snug.
4. Staggered butt joints (so there are no crosses like an intersection in the road)
- There are no four way intersections. Check.
5. Adhesive was used.
- I didn't use glue. Didn't know about the need to use that until this forum.
6. No factory "edges" meeting at outside corners.
- I have only 1 outside corner but am unsure of what you mean. How do I avoid factory corner intersection?
7. Clean butt joints (no ragged chewed up edges)
- I am in the process of cleaning up any raged edges with a knife.
8. Enough screws installed.
- I installed screws approx. every 6 in. To much? To few?
9. Joints are even with each other.
- I did my best with this one. The house is very old and not entirely square anymore. I used a level to make sure the sheets were level horizontally which means that vertically some of the seams are a bit wider than I would have liked.
XSleeper: my room is 14' by 12' and I could only carry 8' sheets up the stairs so there are seams on the walls. I did stager the joints however to minimize that aspect.
MudSlinger
01-22-06, 08:13 PM
It sounds as though you did a good job.
1 screw every 6 inches is a bit overkill, but no big deal. As you didn't use glue, it is probably better. (If the finisher calls you Jesse James it's because it looks like you shot the wall in a gunfight with a screw gun... but you should laugh anyway (far better than a job I finshed that only had three in an 8' length).
Normal is about 5 or 6 in a vertical 8' stud (20-25 for a 4x8 sheet)
If you hung the boards "horizontal", you won't have a factory edge on the outside corner. If you hung them vertically, and put the beveled "paper edge" on the corner when you hung the sheets, you have a factory edge on the outside corner. What that does is put the bead edge of the corner bead further into the wall, and doesn't allow much space for the joint compound. (A lot of people think that paper on the outside corners shows "quality".. finishers think it shows "novice")
If it is done very poorly, the only way to cover the part of the bead that is nailed into the wall is to build a slight hump from the bead edge, out over the nails, and then back into the wall.
If the bead isn't installed yet, and there is a "factory edge" on the outside corner, it can be "prefilled" in order to build the factory edge up to the rest of the wall; then have the bead installed as though it wasn't a factory edge.
DON'T FRET! If it can't be finished "as is", it can always be re-done; and one piece of corner bead is nothing to worry about in the scope of life. Even 1/8 gaps between the sheets is no big deal. :coffee:
The fact that you did most of the work should give you a lot of satisfaction in yourself, and don't let a piece of bead, or a space that is getting filled anyway take anything away from that! :thumbup:
1 screw every 6 inches is a bit overkill, but no big deal. As you didn't use glue, it is probably better. (If the finisher calls you Jesse James it's because it looks like you shot the wall in a gunfight with a screw gun... but you should laugh anyway (far better than a job I finshed that only had three in an 8' length).
Normal is about 5 or 6 in a vertical 8' stud (20-25 for a 4x8 sheet)
If you hung the boards "horizontal", you won't have a factory edge on the outside corner. If you hung them vertically, and put the beveled "paper edge" on the corner when you hung the sheets, you have a factory edge on the outside corner. What that does is put the bead edge of the corner bead further into the wall, and doesn't allow much space for the joint compound. (A lot of people think that paper on the outside corners shows "quality".. finishers think it shows "novice")
If it is done very poorly, the only way to cover the part of the bead that is nailed into the wall is to build a slight hump from the bead edge, out over the nails, and then back into the wall.
If the bead isn't installed yet, and there is a "factory edge" on the outside corner, it can be "prefilled" in order to build the factory edge up to the rest of the wall; then have the bead installed as though it wasn't a factory edge.
DON'T FRET! If it can't be finished "as is", it can always be re-done; and one piece of corner bead is nothing to worry about in the scope of life. Even 1/8 gaps between the sheets is no big deal. :coffee:
The fact that you did most of the work should give you a lot of satisfaction in yourself, and don't let a piece of bead, or a space that is getting filled anyway take anything away from that! :thumbup: