Tools, Sharpening and Power Machinery - first table saw for beginner

Let me start out by saying I am new to woodwork and have never used a saw in my life. I have read some of the threads re: table saws. In my limited saw knowledge, I know I do not want a contractor's quality saw. I just bought a house that has a HUGE greenhouse (16 x 48) and I just want to put together a few potting benches. I understand from reading a few of the threads that Bosch, Ridgid, Dewalt and Ryobi are the best "portable table saws" in that order. I looked at the prices and have a few questions if anyone can help me.

Is the only main difference b/t a table saw and a portable table saw the table itself? What do you put a portable table saw on? Do you need a special something to mount it to? Also, I want to get the least expensive one that is safe and will do a good job. It seems Ryobi BT3100 is a good price. I don't want a saw that will last a lifetime. I want something safe that will do small jobs, like birdhouses and benches, etc. What do you all recommend and am I on the right track? I don't understand some of the terms you all used in some of the threads and I read that the Ryobi had the best instruction manual for even the dumbest of folks. Any advice will be appreciated.

This is my first time on the board and hopefully won't be my last.

Kim

for a few potting benchs and the like a circular saw will do just fine , I have a shop full of saws (two table , radial arm ,chop and band ) If I where to build a potting bench I would just use a couple of sawhorses and grab the circular saw.

I would also recommend you read as many woodworking books as you can (been doing woodworking 40 years I have read everything the local library has and Im still learning) dont worry about the instructions that come with the saw I would recommend you read several books that are devoted to saw use instead , the info is generic and is apllicable no mater what saw you use .

tautum press /fine homebuilding /fine woodworking publishs a tool guide and this years discuss table saws , I would check it out

the have a three volume set here for 20 that looks like it would be good for you http://www.taunton.com/store/pages/01A001.asp

the most important advice is SAFTEY always be aware that your hand is softer than the wood your cutting and the saw dosn't know the diffrence .

Hi Kim, it's really nice to have you with us here.

Contractor table saws are much larger, are often belt driven, are heavy and have a very large table that makes them hard to move around- in other words, they're difficult to just throw in the back of a pickup! Portable saws do have a smaller table, are limited in the width of material they can rip (25" is often the max) and they are a lot lighter and thus more portable. They have smaller direct drive motors, but still have enough power to handle almost anything a contractor saw can do. Most portable saws will either come with a portable stand, or it can be purchased seperately. If you don't want the stand and prefer to set the saw on your own bench, such as sawhorses and plywood, that works too. Some lazy guys even set them on the ground! heh heh. (not me!)

I don't know how much you want to spend, but if I could give you any advice in choosing a saw that fits your needs, I would suggest giving special attention to the rip fence... the fence that you adjust when ripping material to width. It should be solid, sturdy, easy to adjust, it should lock down perfectly square and it should slide from side to side easily, without grabbing or binding. You don't want the fence to be crooked when it gets locked down, that would cause binding when you cut. That's a big problem with the really cheap portable saws. Also consider the size of the table top. Usually, the bigger the better as far as stability of your workpiece is concerned.

And if your saw comes with a stand, you'll want the stand to be stable. If it's on display, give it a good shaking and see if it wobbles. You don't want a flimsy stand. Some of the stands even have wheels which makes the whole unit portable. A nice feature if you don't want to have to lift the saw, or if you just want to stow it and roll it away in the garage.

Thanks mango man and xsleeper. They sure do put the ads on this thing to attract a impulse click don't they? Well it worked on me and I clicked on the Sears Craftsman table saw link. Would this work for me?

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00921801000

I know it's not 15 amps, but do I need that for the small projects I want to do?

Mango man, I want a circular saw too. I have wanted one of those for a while just to have around the house. I have always wanted to work with wood. Seems like you could get "lost" in a project, which would be a nice break for me!

Kim

i would suggest starting with the circular saw , get your feet wet do a few projects read up look around and then you will be in a far better postion to see what you want in a table saw or other stationary equipment .

15 amps is more than adequate for what your likey to be doing .

Im a big beleiver in used , so you might want to check out the classifieds . If they have a Habitat for hummaninity resale store in your area c heck them out I bought my current tablesaw and bandsaw from ours , they often have nice tablesaws cheap

also a great place to get cheap project materils and you help a great organiztion

win/win



http://www.habitat.org/env/restore.aspx

What a great idea. I just clicked on the link but they didn't have a link to the store.

I am online shopping around and checking prices for the lithium-ion cordless drills. That 4-pc Mikita set is great but sure is pricey. I guess that's too fancy for me, but gosh they sure are nice. I'll never buy one now, that's for sure. But like plasma tv's and dvd recorders, etc... those prices too will fall.

Can you recommend a cheap, good and most of all safe circular saw? What do you think of the Milwaukee #6390-21? Here's the one I am talking about:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Milwaukee-7-1-4-Circular-Saw-6390-21-NIB_W0QQitemZ7579826778QQcategoryZ43599QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

Kim

Or the Porter-Cable 324 MAG?

Thanks,

Kim

p.s. I am on my way to Lowe's to return a staple gun I bought to re-upholster dining chairs. I finished the job (they look great) but good Lord, my hands felt like they were going to fall off my arms. I realize now that an electric one would be better, so off I go to get something a little more user friendly.

Kim,

Welcome to the site! I don't have really much to offer as far as saws go (I'm still building my tool set), but I would like to know how to get my wife as interested in tools as you seem to be. Things would be much easier that way :D

Rapture,

I wish I could help you but I really don't know. I have always been "artsy" and so I paint, play piano, sew and have a dark room. I have always wished I could build things and make things. I have always been intimidated by saws. I use a drill all the time, but never have used a saw. I guess the older I get the more I want to just do it.

You can try this, but I am not sure it will work. Next time you are at the grocery store, look for a magazine that says something like "202 projects you can make yourself" or something...a girly magazine, not a man's plans. I really love all those magazines and I try to make some of the neat things or at least get an idea or two. For instance, I saw an idea just last month and made it. I bought a half a sheet of pegboard (4 x 2) and bought this bright red spray paint. I had the pegboard cut in 3 different sizes and put a million coats of red on them....maybe just 20, and I bought spacers and screws, etc. I hung a square one in the kitchen (which is stainless with some red accessories) and hung neat little stainless measuring spoons and cups. I also bought a screwdriver holder and put wooden spoons in it. Looks great! I have had about 3 compliments on it from neighbors when they drop in! They say it's "unique."

Try one of those magazines...maybe she will want to make something and it will go from there.

Good luck!

Kim

Ok, I am talking t

oo much. Bye

Kim,
I've recently been getting "The Family Handyman" magazine. This may be just the ticket. She kept looking at them...didn't say much about doing some of the ideas with me, but by next month's issue, I may hear something along the lines of..."hey, I need a drill too". She wouldn't have to finish the sentence and I'd be out the door to Home Depot.

Matt

Hi Kim
Welcome to the forums

...Or the Porter-Cable 324 MAG?

I can strongly recommend the MAGs (righty or lefty) as great, lightweight, easy to handle, circ. saws that won't need to be replaced as your skills, needs, wants, grow

They're great for a beginner, and pro's
(We like the light weight easy to handle saws too)
The quality of the PC MAGs is great, it's a regret-proof purchase
No "wish-I'da-boughta-better one"
You won't outgrow it

p.s. I am on my way to Lowe's to return a staple gun I bought to re-upholster dining chairs. I finished the job (they look great) but good Lord, my hands felt like they were going to fall off my arms. I realize now that an electric one would be better, so off I go to get something a little more user friendly.
Yeah, you need the electric or air powered ones for that

My two cents. It usually comes down to need v/s budget.

I would go with a circular saw over the craftsman table saw that you listed. If you have a need for a table saw, now or in the future, go with the best value rated Ryobi portable table saw which cost about $85.00 more than the Craftsman, but also comes with a stand with wheels. The Ryobi fence was also rated higher than its competitors. I suggest that you go look at the two and compare. Ryobi is sold by Home Depot.

My wife paints and I do the wood work - a good trade.

Don

A table saw takes dedicated space to use properly.

I have borrowed a couple, and I do not like using them.

I would look into the EZ Guide and Smart Table as an alternative.

http://www.eurekazone.com/index.html

I have no commercial interest in the system- it just looks like a well designed system that can be more useful than a table saw.

Kim,

First of all, the best tools to start out with are a 7-1/4 inch corded circular saw and a corded drill (e.g. Dewalt 6amp) or a 14V+ drill for home use. When you work your way up to remodeling or bigger projects, you will want an 18V. The Makita lithium ion tools are sweet and very lightweight, but for a beginner they are overkill and perhaps too costly to justify the expense. You will not be running tools all day, six days a week to justify the lithium ion tool expense.

Having said that, for a woman the most defining factor is the weight of the tool and how it fits in her hand. This is why I agree with the others on the Porter Cable circular saw; it weighs only about 9 lbs. and is a great saw to boot. I bought an 18V Ridgid drill but sometimes balk about the weight although it kicks butt. [Years ago, someone recommended that I buy a Panasonic drill, and I thought because I am a woman (yikes, I am out of the closet now!) that he wanted to sell me some "small dinky drill". HA HA HA. :wall: :wall: I now am scoping out right angle drills for a smaller drill to fit between stud bays...which I wouldn't have to buy if i had the Panasonic]. For your mentioned projects, these tools would be fine. I see no compelling reason to fork out the bucks for a table saw. Just buy the best quality you can afford and skip the Black and Decker, which is a familiar brand to men and especially women, but which I deem throw-away tools. Use 'em a few times and throw them...far away.
Let us know what you end up doing. If I can be of further help, mail again.

Thanks to all of you, Rapture, Slickshift, Don, Danski and Kayaker. Rapture, that Family Handyman magazine might work especially if she’s already taking a keen interest in something in it.

I can see it is pretty much consensus that I not get the table saw and go with the circular instead. I was at Sears on Monday (the holiday) and although I was not going to buy one there, I looked at them up close. Personally, I found them very intimidating and I did not have a clue what anything was or what it was for. I actually did not like them much. I asked a man that worked there what the difference between the $139, $209 and $279 table saws was. Before he answered my question, he started reading the description cards and I said, “oh never mind, I am not really going to buy one anyway” and I left. Heck, I can read and had already read them before I asked my question!

Anyway, I got some good deals on things to organize my garage this weekend. My hubby is leaving town for a week and I’ll be able to piddle around in the garage and hopefully make a difference. I got a garden tool organizer for the wall, an 8-piece Craftsman screwdriver set for myself (I have lost a couple over the years), a thing to organize 195 or so sockets, a 39 drawer organizer to hang on the wall (like for screws and nails and stuff) and a 43-piece pegboard hook kit (with little jars and stuff) all for only $55 with tax!!! (I had a coupon for $5 off of $25 and then $10 off of $50). Not a bad deal and I was really happy until I saw the table saws.

Ok, I digress…let me get back to work now….just wanted to let you nice people know I am going with the circular saw. And I have decided the Porter Cable 324 Mag is right for me. Now to find the BEST price!

I have another dumb question now…are ya’ll ready? It’s so dumb I should really ask some guys here at work actually….

Kim

Kim,

I am glad you like us all here :p. I find everyone here very helpful. I try and help when I can, but my expertise is elsewhere. Please let us know how you like the PC MAG. I am very close to deciding to get the one for right handers (blade on left side - so I can see it easier). Good luck with your projects :thumbup:

I use the Porter Cable left hand saw, and would never go back to a "regular" saw. I can see my blade, and I can see my line. It throws more dust in your direction, but it also has the pickup tube to carry it away, also. Wear eye protection, always.

Hi Kim
Welcome to the forums


I can strongly recommend the MAGs (righty or lefty) as great, lightweight, easy to handle, circ. saws that won't need to be replaced as your skills, needs, wants, grow

They're great for a beginner, and pro's
(We like the light weight easy to handle saws too)
The quality of the PC MAGs is great, it's a regret-proof purchase
No "wish-I'da-boughta-better one"
You won't outgrow it
What is a MAG saw? and, What makes it different than normal saws?

Welcome Kim. "...and now let's take a moment to talk about shop safety" Norm Abrams always says something like this just before he starts using his tools. Maybe you would not be intimidated by a good jigsaw? They cut most materials and do it with relative safety. Blades of all types can be purchased. I don't know of anyone losing a finger while using a jigsaw. Once you gain confidence using the jigsaw, you could then get a good circular saw. A tablesaw is nice to have for a shop situation. A circular saw is nice for crosscutting and ripping. A jigsaw is slower and in my thinking safer for a person starting to use power tools. I've read all the replies here and they are very informative and I agree with everyone, but folks, maybe Kim should try a good, quality jigsaw first? What do you all think?

Dread, you read my mind! I went to Lowe's yesterday to buy the circular saw and the floor person in the tools department wanted to help me. I told him I wanted to make a few things and had never used a saw. We were talking about the circular saws and he went on and on about kickback and safety and cutting my hand off. He kept saying "you need to be real careful" and "it will cut your hand right off so never forget that when you are using it and you'll be alright." Anyway, it scared me to death! He said, "you know, you are too nervous about saws. Why don't you start off by using a jigsaw? They are very safe and if you like using it and gain confidence, you can always come back and get a circular saw." So he picked out a cheap jigsaw for me to buy. He said, "if you don't like saws, then you haven't wasted that much money. But if you like it, it will last you for years." So I have a Skil jigsaw now. It cost about $40 and I am reading the book now. I have some wood that I am going to cut for a concrete form. I feel really great about using this jigsaw and I am not too nervous. That man at Lowe's was really sweet and picked out some extra saw blades for me too. He said, "You try this and let me know how you like it. I'm always here on the weekends." He was so nice. So I guess I have come full circle now. From table saw ideations to circular saw dreams to jigsaw reality. I feel really good about the jigsaw!

Kim

Hi Kim, I am glad to hear you got your jigsaw. Skil makes good jigsaws. It should last a long time and give you good service. I paid about $100.00 for my jigsaw. It has variable speed, random orbit, edge guide, lots more and I like it. I was installing some 8" galvanized pipe and I needed to cut it. I couldn't do it by hand using tin snips (arthritis) so I used the jigsaw on slow speed with a metal cutting blade. It cut the pipe quickly and right on the line. I've cut a lot of material with this type of saw. The correct blade makes all the difference in how well the saw cuts. Blades are inexpensive. Break one and it won't break your wallet. The only drawback with the jigsaw is that it is a lot slower to cut things with than a tablesaw or circular saw. But no need to fear the jigsaw. It may scrape some skin off your finger, but you will still have your finger. It's a really safe saw. I have recommended the jigsaw to many of my friends that wanted to do some cutting but were intimidated by any motorized saw. They got a jigsaw and liked it enough that many did not buy any more saws. I think you will enjoy using your jigsaw. Just get a couple of good clamps and a sturdy table, B$D Workmate 100, or horse to clamp your work onto and you are all set to get your projects going. :)

Dread, I bought a B&D workmate table (only took me 30 minutes to put it together) and 2 extra clamps, the steel kind with blue plastic tips. They are hard to squeeze open! I wanted a pair of sawhorses too and was going to make them but by the time you buy the brackets and the wood and cut it and everything, it probably would have been about $15 dollars or more so that same man at Lowe's talked me into getting a pair of nice ones already made for $20 for the pair. I am all set!

I want to thank everyone who responded to my original question about a table saw...wow. I can't believe I was actually thinking about one of those big things.

Kim

What is a MAG saw? and, What makes it different than normal saws?
It's a line by Porter-Cable
They use Magnesium, so it's very strong, but very light
Very easy to handle, and fatigue is not a problem for vertical cuts or cutting (tough to cut) Pressure Treated wood or Composite all day

If you own a PC mag saw , be aware of the recall

http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml06/06040.html

nice heads up for those who are shopping Mango. Good lookin' out for the fellow DIY'ers. :thumbup:

I just read through all these post and I can speak from experiance as a woman interested in woodworking.
I started out with a scroll saw and a jig saw for home projects. They are both fun and easy to work with. Then when I bought my own house I moved up to a circular saw to cut plywood. Now I want something to cut more accurate and straighter lines than the circular saw, so I am researching table saws. I always read all the instructions and use safety glasses. I also pay a lot of attention to safety and know how to cut the saws off if I feel that something is going wrong. When buying tools I research the brands, but also have to take into consideration the weight for my own safety. I have often chosen lower priced brands like Ryobi based on their weight. I'd rather be safe and wear out a cheaper tool than buy a more expensive heavy tool.
Kim-If you have fun with your jigsaw projects and want to do other things you should research routers. I have been making signs and routering in the words. Very cool tool. Just read all the instructions first.

since I first posted to this thread , I discovred and purchased one of these

great product , tablesaw alternative. spend some time on the site , watch the videos

http://www.eurekazone.com/products/detail/sgs.html


manufactures forum here
http://www.sawmillcreek.org/forumdisplay.php?f=26