Water Heaters - No Exhaust Draft

Hello all, been a lurker for a while and love all the resources you guys provide!! Thanks!

The problem: The exhaust vent for the water heater seems to work 'okay' in the sense that its not plugged, but there is absolutley ZERO draft with the pilot on or the heater running. I've taken a bunch of pictures and have a movie of the burner running and one of the burner starting (warning: 12mb).

http://starquake.ath.cx/WaterHeater/VentProblem/

Note: all the smoke/charring around the opening to the burner is from the matches when I light the pilot.

http://starquake.ath.cx/WaterHeater/VentProblem/Startup.avi

Note: When the flame goes yellow as I move the camera around I was using zoom so the camera was a good 6-7 inches from the opening. Either way it shouldn't be affected too much as that opening is not normally an opening during operation... or I think it wouldn't make a difference anyway!

http://starquake.ath.cx/WaterHeater/VentProblem/Running.avi

The reason I noticed this is that during the summer the water heater works great, never run out of hot water, etc. Now that it has gotten cold it is performing much worse... I thought that it was just due to the incoming water being much colder and didn't think anything of it. Then a week or so later I noticed that the utility room smelled like gas. At this point I was a lurker here so started reading up on things and checked out the draft, which is entirely non-existant. It only smells like gas occasionally, and I can't track it to any kind of variable changing (outside temp, utility room door open/closed, etc).

The things I've checked so far:
--Vent obstruction: none, went on roof and cap is clear. Reading the FAQ now I forgot to make sure it wasn't down to far on the pipe. Don't think so, but will check tomorrow. Did run a hair dryer up it and it very little air escaped back into the room.
--Vent design: straight up, except for the curvey piece that is right off of the heater. One potential problem area (should be at least 6" before any bend correct?)
--Air supply: No other vented appliances besides dryer (at the moment). Have tested for draft with nearby outside door open/closed utility room open/closed, etc. The unit is located in a small utility closet; however there is a large hole to the attic, which should supply a large amount of air.
--Spiral Flue Baffle: See pictures. It is rusty and has some soot on it (sign of bigger problem as well?). Does not appear to be collapsed. Turned off heater and pilot, stuck flashlight on top of flue and could see light at the bottom.
--Pilot: Works great, solid blue flame, has never gone out during my ownership.
--Burner: See pictures. Appears to be some rust, and the whole burner compartment overall just looks very "well used."

I think thats all.... let me know if i left anything out!

I don't plan on keeping the heater that much longer regardless.... I plan on relocating it right next to the bathroom, and using a Takagi direct vent tankless heater; however, it would be nice to do that at my leisure instead of this very instant so I don't kill myself with CO (I have detectors now, so far so good).

Thanks for taking the time to read all this!! Any kind of suggestions or tips are welcome!!

John

I couldn't get the video clips to play, but you mentioned yellow flame, which is not good.

You mention this is in a utility room. Is there an adequate supply of fresh air into that room?

Sorry about the vids, forgot to mention that. My camerea makes some crazy format.... for me it will play once in Windows Media Player, then won't work again (??), but it does always work if you play it with QuickTime. HTH.

For fresh air supply there is a large (attic entrance) hole to the attic in the room, but that is about it. Not sure if that qualifies as good air supply or not. I tested for a draft with the utility room door open, and a door to the outside opened as well. It didn't make any difference that I could tell....

Thanks!
John

In looking at the pictures and video, it doesn't appear to be any significant problems. The main burning flame is nice and blue, with the exception of an occasional yellow tip. This is likely do to some debris in the burner or impurities in the gas.

As far as your draft hood goes, there doesn't appear to be an issue there either. If the flue gases were spilling out you wouldn't be able to get that match anywhere near the opening, let alone inside the opening (assuming the water heater is running). Ideally, to check the draft, hold the match along side the vent hood. It should be drawn in.

Are the gas odors you smell constant or only when the water heater is running?

I would recommend the cheap investment of a carbon monoxide detector, even if there are no suspicions of CO spillage.

In looking at the pictures and video, it doesn't appear to be any significant problems. The main burning flame is nice and blue, with the exception of an occasional yellow tip. This is likely do to some debris in the burner or impurities in the gas.
Good deal! I'd much rather be paranoid about this stuff than not :) so thanks for giving me a good "reference flame" to compare to in the future.

As far as your draft hood goes, there doesn't appear to be an issue there either. If the flue gases were spilling out you wouldn't be able to get that match anywhere near the opening, let alone inside the opening (assuming the water heater is running). Ideally, to check the draft, hold the match along side the vent hood. It should be drawn in.
Yeah, it seems to work in that it doesn't spill out, but the match is never drawn towards the flue even when the heater is running. I'm new to the gas appliance thing and thought that it should be drawn in pretty obviously. Tried to capture that with the pics of the match, but kinda hard to get a side view while doing both!

Are the gas odors you smell constant or only when the water heater is running?
Neither, occurs "at random" (can't connect it to any other event happening), but it does not occur during the summer months.

I would recommend the cheap investment of a carbon monoxide detector, even if there are no suspicions of CO spillage.
Oh yeah, got two as soon as I thought I had a problem... always had them on the "to buy" list, but that bumped them up a little bit! Do you know at what height they need to be mounted? I didn't come across anything in the instructions that said what height... just guessing I don't think it would matter as CO probably isn't a couple orders of magnitude lighter/heavier than air like butane/propane/etc that sink. Dunno for sure though...

Thanks for the help!
John

I'd pull the flue baffle and look at it. Seeing some light when shining a light down from on top the unit does mean it is fully open.

You have easy access to work on the heater.

I'd also extend the T&P outlet to the edge of the tank and then downward until it's around 6 inches from the floor.

Looked at the pics and the burner movie...good detail

Good luck with your heater...

Carbon monoxide will mix with the atmosphere. It will not concentrate to the ceiling or floor like natural gas or propane.

As far as placement, I would look up the manufacturers web site for specifics since you don't have any literature. As a rule of thumb I would stay a minimum of a foot from any corners or where the ceiling meets the wall as these are places where there is the least amount of air circulation. I would suspect that you have a battery operated model. I would stay near the center of the ceiling.

Here's what First Alert recommends for their product:

Install at least one CO Alarm near or in each separate sleeping area. For added protection, install an additional CO Alarm at least 15-20 feet away from the furnace or fuel burning heat sources. Also, locate CO Alarms at least 10 feet from sources of humidity like bathrooms and showers. In two story houses, install one CO Alarm on each level of the home. If you have a basement, install that CO Alarm at the top of the basement stairs.

DO NOT locate a CO Alarm in garages, kitchens, furnace rooms, or in any extremely dusty, dirty, humid, or greasy areas. Do not place units in direct sunlight, or areas subjected to temperature extremes. These include unconditioned crawl spaces, unfinished attics, uninsulated or poorly insulated ceilings, and porches. CO Alarms should not be located in outlets covered by curtains or other obstructions. Do not place in turbulent air-near ceiling fans, heat vents, air conditioners, fresh air returns, or open windows. Blowing air may prevent CO from reaching the CO sensors.

I would contact your gas company regarding your orders. They will be able to test your system for leaks at a minimum. I probably couldn't hurt to have a Gas Check done (if you company offers it). This is a soup to nuts inspection of your gas system. It goes over every thing from the physical gas lines, to the appliances, to the venting system. Most important of all, All findings get documented and a copy left with you.

Thanks for all the detailed responses!

Good catch on the valve... I'm currently tossing around a tankless heater if I can figure out how to mount it, provide ventilation, etc. If I scratch that off the list will definitely make the current install "finished" by putting that to an actual drain line.

When exams are over I'll probably pull the baffle, is there anything special to removing it? I didn't see anything mounting it in place, but I wasn't looking either.

The CO information is great!!! Thank you for taking the time to look up all that for me as well!

I have looked into a gas check before, and they do offer it. Not sure how thorough it is, as they charged for it and I wasn't finished with the gas work I was doing (moved gas line for stove and added one for dryer) so was going to wait till I was finished. Got too busy, and forgot about it untill the smell showed up. :(

On another project around the house (you guys know the drill ;)) I've got to move another gas line. When that is done I will be getting in touch with the gas company for sure!! The project will probably also involve me inviting the local building inspector out as well... so it *will* get done!

Thanks again!
John