Residential & Commercial Security - Locks, Keys & Dead Bolts - I cannot explain this cylinder...

I have a mortise lock and I just replaced it's dead bolt cylinder. I cannot find a perfect picture of it but it looks just like this:

http://www.gloverslock.com/PROFILE2.jpg

In the middle there is a screw. I inserted it through the door and the mortise, insert the screw from the edge, tighten it, and try my key...won't turn. Let me rephrase, it will turn about once every 100 times I tried.

I removed it and took it back to the locksmith who keyed it for me, and while he watched, I can insert my key and it turns every single time. I felt like an idiot.

I then went back home, reinstalled it, and inserted my key, won't turn.

I removed it again and no problem.

So it will only work when uninstalled. Once I installed it fails.

I then removed the middle screw, it works again. WHAT IS WRONG WiTH THIS???? Why is the middle screw when tightened make it difficult to turn the key?

I looked closely, and it seems when the screw is tightened, I cannot insert my key 100% into the cylinder. There may be about 0.5mm still protruding, causing the problem.

I tried NOT tightening the screw too much and it did not help. I am running out of ideas. Why would this screw make a difference anyways? Is it possessed?

MC

Hi Miamicuse,

I have not worked on this type of cylinder before so I cannot give you any details. Hopefully cudedude will be able to give you some tips when he gets back.

Hi MiamiCuse
What you have pictured, is what most refer to as a profile cylinder.
By the description of the trouble you're having with it, it sounds like the cam is'nt engaging the lockbody right. There are many variations of the profile lock. The cam does'nt necessarily need to be centered on every lock body its used in. Some require an offset to a degree.
Did you have your old cylinder in hand when you ordered the replacement?
If so, then it'd be the sellers responsibility to get you the right one.
If not, then it's your mistake and you may need your Locksmith to visit your home to measure for the right cylinder.
So...your lock cylinder is not possessed.

I should add.. The cam may also need to be in a certain rotation in order for it to work properly. That can be set while it's apart being rekeyed.

Hope that helps
Regards

schiejr:

Thanks! Is cudedude on vacation? Haven't seen him post since Wilma...I know he is in S Florida as well so hope all is well with him.

MC

Thanks WGW.

I took the whole cylinder out with the mortise and took it to the locksmith. He clamped the mortise to a vise and tried it, this is the funny part, it does not happen.

Insert key, lock, unlock, pull out key - no problem.

He did it, I did it, no problem, perplexing...

The lock has a key entry on one end and a turn knob on the other end. Now as I was trying it I accidentally "move" the knob of the cylinder, and the key will be stucked and unable to pull out. Not unless I move the
cylinder knob on the other side until I hear a very quiet "click" then it works.

Therefore, the knob and the key has to be perfectly aligned to work. I tried it - insert key, lock, unlock, pull out and repeat several times, no problem.

However, if I do not insert key, but use the knob to lock (like when I leave home, my son lock the door for me from the inside by turning the knob), and if the knob is not perfectly aligned to vertical, and I try to insert key to unlock - no luck, will not insert all the way. Just off by about 1mm. Strange huh?

I then showed the locksmith my original lock cylinder (one I removed from the backdoor of the same lockset) and it does not have this problem. I lock with the knob, and let the knob be five degrees to the right - insert key,
no problem. Tilt it five degrees to the left, insert key no problem.

Repeat the same process with this new lock cylinder, no luck. He said for some reason the two lock "looks" the same but "finishes" different.

Next thing he tried - grind my key to a bit shorter so it will insert further? He did it, insert into cylinder, turn - it now turns and turns and will not catch the lock anymore. The tiny bit he filed off made a difference. So now, he has it, he said he will look closer into it over the weekend. I am still confused what is going on. He
told me he has been doing this for 20 years and have never seen anything like it.

MC

I've been in the biz for over 17 years and there's still plenty that I either have'nt had experience with. That's what keeps the job interesting.

Grinding the key tip would accomplish nothing in this case because this cylinder relies on the key length to push a spring loaded cog that engages the cam and in turn operates the lock.

With your description of the thumbpiece having to be in a certain position in order for the key to work, I would bet money that while reassembling your cylinder after he rekeyed it, the Locksmith either forgot or did'nt realise that there's a spring required on the thumbpiece end.
I'd suggest that you be sure this cylinder functions problem free before you use it in your door, because the way it is now, it will surely cause a lockout at some point.

Regards