Lighting, Light Fixtures, Ceiling and Exhaust Fans - Which wire were?
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bparkinson
10-22-05, 11:21 AM
I have a problem....
I just bought a home and in the bathroom there are two lights one above the sink and one overhead light. There are only two wires that are connected to the wall switch (one black and one white). We just bought a light to go over the sink I thought that it would be easy to put in since I have put several other lights up in the house. I connected all the blacks and the red from the outlit box where the light is going to go (has two blacks, one red and two whites). Then I connected all the whites together and that blew the circut. So I took one black out to find out what that might do. Now I have one light that goes on when the wall switch is in the off position and one light that goes on when the wall switch in in the on position. I would like to have BOTH of these lights go ON TOGETHER and not seperatly. If I take the other black wire out and replace it with the other then the light above the sink will not turn off and the light overhead will go on. HELP PLEASE. :wall:
I just bought a home and in the bathroom there are two lights one above the sink and one overhead light. There are only two wires that are connected to the wall switch (one black and one white). We just bought a light to go over the sink I thought that it would be easy to put in since I have put several other lights up in the house. I connected all the blacks and the red from the outlit box where the light is going to go (has two blacks, one red and two whites). Then I connected all the whites together and that blew the circut. So I took one black out to find out what that might do. Now I have one light that goes on when the wall switch is in the off position and one light that goes on when the wall switch in in the on position. I would like to have BOTH of these lights go ON TOGETHER and not seperatly. If I take the other black wire out and replace it with the other then the light above the sink will not turn off and the light overhead will go on. HELP PLEASE. :wall:
John Nelson
10-22-05, 04:55 PM
Guessing is almost always bad when it comes to electrical work. If it doesn't kill you or burn down the house immediately, it still might do it months later.
As in all such projects, if you connect the new fixture exactly as the old one was connected, it cannot fail to work.
When a switch loop is involved (as in your case), connecting all wires by match color at the fixture is always wrong (as you have discovered).
Please answer these questions: Do you remember how the old fixture was connected? You said that there are only two wires connected to the switch. But are there any other wires in the switch box not connected to the switch? Before you started, was there just one switch in the room, and that one switch controlled all three lights? Did you add a fourth light to the original three, or did you remove one or more? If you removed one or more, which ones?
As in all such projects, if you connect the new fixture exactly as the old one was connected, it cannot fail to work.
When a switch loop is involved (as in your case), connecting all wires by match color at the fixture is always wrong (as you have discovered).
Please answer these questions: Do you remember how the old fixture was connected? You said that there are only two wires connected to the switch. But are there any other wires in the switch box not connected to the switch? Before you started, was there just one switch in the room, and that one switch controlled all three lights? Did you add a fourth light to the original three, or did you remove one or more? If you removed one or more, which ones?
bparkinson
10-22-05, 06:02 PM
Sorry I guess I have not explained myself properly...
Unfortunatly there was no "old light". We bought the house as a repo. and it only had a few lights that were hung up
There are no other wires at the switch only one black that is connected to the bottom post and a white that is connected to the top post
I have not added nor taken away anything in this room I have two lights and only one switch.
When I turn the switch on the ceiling light turns on but when I turn the switch off the light just above the sink turns on.
What I would like to do is have it so that BOTH lights come on together from that switch.
Ceiling Light has: two blacks, one red, and two whites coming from the electrical box
Light above Sink has: two blacks, one red, and whites coming from the electrical box
Switch has: one black and one white coming from the box
Thank you for any help that you can provide
Unfortunatly there was no "old light". We bought the house as a repo. and it only had a few lights that were hung up
There are no other wires at the switch only one black that is connected to the bottom post and a white that is connected to the top post
I have not added nor taken away anything in this room I have two lights and only one switch.
When I turn the switch on the ceiling light turns on but when I turn the switch off the light just above the sink turns on.
What I would like to do is have it so that BOTH lights come on together from that switch.
Ceiling Light has: two blacks, one red, and two whites coming from the electrical box
Light above Sink has: two blacks, one red, and whites coming from the electrical box
Switch has: one black and one white coming from the box
Thank you for any help that you can provide
John Nelson
10-22-05, 07:25 PM
Without X-ray vision, it's not possible to tell how the wires run behind the walls. With electrical test equipment, however, you can figure it out (well, not 100%, but close enough).
The first thing to notice is that those five wires in each fixture box (two blacks, one red, two whites) are grouped into one black/white cable, and one black/red/white cable. Look carefully in each box so that you can identify these groupings.
At "fixture#1", the black/white cable is the power supply. The black/red/white cable takes unswitch power (black) and neutral (white) to "fixture#2". The red wire brings switched power back from "fixture#2".
At "fixture#2", the black/red/white cable is as described above. The black/white cable is the switch loop.
So the first question to be asked is which fixture is #1 and which fixture is #2. Since both fixtures have identical cables, that isn't enough information to tell. But here's how: Shut off the breaker. Remove both fixtures. Separate all the wires in each box. Turn the breaker back on. Use a simple $2 neon circuit tester to test between the black and white wires in the black/white pair at each fixture. Shut the breaker back off again.The fixture where the black/white pair lights the neon tester is "fixture#1" as described above. The other fixture is "fixture#2".
Post back when you get this far, and I'll guide you through what's next. Be sure to tell me which fixture is "fixture#1" and which is "fixture#2".
The first thing to notice is that those five wires in each fixture box (two blacks, one red, two whites) are grouped into one black/white cable, and one black/red/white cable. Look carefully in each box so that you can identify these groupings.
At "fixture#1", the black/white cable is the power supply. The black/red/white cable takes unswitch power (black) and neutral (white) to "fixture#2". The red wire brings switched power back from "fixture#2".
At "fixture#2", the black/red/white cable is as described above. The black/white cable is the switch loop.
So the first question to be asked is which fixture is #1 and which fixture is #2. Since both fixtures have identical cables, that isn't enough information to tell. But here's how: Shut off the breaker. Remove both fixtures. Separate all the wires in each box. Turn the breaker back on. Use a simple $2 neon circuit tester to test between the black and white wires in the black/white pair at each fixture. Shut the breaker back off again.The fixture where the black/white pair lights the neon tester is "fixture#1" as described above. The other fixture is "fixture#2".
Post back when you get this far, and I'll guide you through what's next. Be sure to tell me which fixture is "fixture#1" and which is "fixture#2".