Flooring Tile - Backerboard Installation Questions
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thebeave
10-14-05, 11:28 AM
I've done a few ceramic tiling jobs over the last few years (flooring, countertops and around tubs) and would like the thoughts and experience of you pros out there on the following backerboard issues:
1) Which type do you prefer to work with and why? Hardibacker or Wonderboard (or other brand)? I like Hardibacker best. The mesh and crumbly edges of Wonderboard get on my nerves sometimes.
2) I find that the special, expensive cement board screws are difficult to work with. They are more prone to cracking the edges and corners, and while driving them in initially, cause the cement board to pull away from the studs/subfloor. Though the cement board seems to pull back in during the final few screw rotations, I always have this uncomfortable feeling the cement board never goes back in fully flush, making for a potentially wavy tile installation (most noticeable with countertops). I've been using galv roofing nails lately, and find its faster and cheaper and there is no problem with the cement board pulling away. Plus, with screws, I always seem to have to sand or scrape off the debris around the screw. On top of that, there always seems to be a residual bump at the screw edges from the internally displaced material. So, which do you all prefer to use?
3) Speaking of screws, the cement board manufacturers recommend against using standard drywall or deck screws with cement board. However, I just read in a recent handyman magazine that drywall/deck screws are fine. So, is that true? Are those special screws a bit of a scam? I've used the drywall/decks screws here and there and haven't encountered any difficulty, though I don't know what the long term effects are. In fact, they seem to drive in easier. Thoughts, please?
4) Is using a latex admix with thinset always really necessary? I've always used it because the thinset directions and how-to books say to do it, but I wonder if I'm being taken for a ride here. I recently mixed thinset with water accidently for a flooring project over a concrete slab, and everything seems fine. Is it mostly a long term bonding issue? What's the inside scoop here? Do you always use it, and if not, why?
5) Are the premium grade thinset mortars worth the extra price? Under what circumstances would they not fail, when the economy grade thinset would?
Thanks for all your help! I'm just trying to simplify my future tiling work and cut costs if I can, without significantly sacrificing quality or durability.
James
1) Which type do you prefer to work with and why? Hardibacker or Wonderboard (or other brand)? I like Hardibacker best. The mesh and crumbly edges of Wonderboard get on my nerves sometimes.
2) I find that the special, expensive cement board screws are difficult to work with. They are more prone to cracking the edges and corners, and while driving them in initially, cause the cement board to pull away from the studs/subfloor. Though the cement board seems to pull back in during the final few screw rotations, I always have this uncomfortable feeling the cement board never goes back in fully flush, making for a potentially wavy tile installation (most noticeable with countertops). I've been using galv roofing nails lately, and find its faster and cheaper and there is no problem with the cement board pulling away. Plus, with screws, I always seem to have to sand or scrape off the debris around the screw. On top of that, there always seems to be a residual bump at the screw edges from the internally displaced material. So, which do you all prefer to use?
3) Speaking of screws, the cement board manufacturers recommend against using standard drywall or deck screws with cement board. However, I just read in a recent handyman magazine that drywall/deck screws are fine. So, is that true? Are those special screws a bit of a scam? I've used the drywall/decks screws here and there and haven't encountered any difficulty, though I don't know what the long term effects are. In fact, they seem to drive in easier. Thoughts, please?
4) Is using a latex admix with thinset always really necessary? I've always used it because the thinset directions and how-to books say to do it, but I wonder if I'm being taken for a ride here. I recently mixed thinset with water accidently for a flooring project over a concrete slab, and everything seems fine. Is it mostly a long term bonding issue? What's the inside scoop here? Do you always use it, and if not, why?
5) Are the premium grade thinset mortars worth the extra price? Under what circumstances would they not fail, when the economy grade thinset would?
Thanks for all your help! I'm just trying to simplify my future tiling work and cut costs if I can, without significantly sacrificing quality or durability.
James
Tileguybob
10-14-05, 09:45 PM
1.) Agree with you and much easier to cut with Snapper shears.
2.) Agree with you
3.) The backerbord screws have a different head on them to help them sit flush in the board. The threading looks the same but may be a little different to turn through the cement board
4.) Latex does help improve the bond of the tile to the floor. An exception would be when setting tile over Ditra membrane.
5.) The high end thinsets meet specific needs. I use one when setting tile on top of plywood for one builder who wants it done that way. Most allow for a little more flexing in the subfloor without failing whereas the economy ones would let go right away.
2.) Agree with you
3.) The backerbord screws have a different head on them to help them sit flush in the board. The threading looks the same but may be a little different to turn through the cement board
4.) Latex does help improve the bond of the tile to the floor. An exception would be when setting tile over Ditra membrane.
5.) The high end thinsets meet specific needs. I use one when setting tile on top of plywood for one builder who wants it done that way. Most allow for a little more flexing in the subfloor without failing whereas the economy ones would let go right away.