Heat Pump Location

[shimp]

hi folks
thanks for the great info here:)
looking to replace heat pump in the crawl space....
the existing unit has been replaced once, and both instances the 'installer' placed the unit in the same place->in the crawl space in a "pit".
by pit, i mean they dug out about 4 feet of dirt and set the unit in the pit/in the dirt....

dealer came by today and suggested replacing the existing unit, keeping the new unit in the crawl space(all duct work is in crawl space).
he said they can mount a new unit sideways and hang it from the floor joists.

any thoughts/ideas on this set up would be much appreciatd.
thanks
shimpster

[Grady]

Are you telling us that somebody actually put an upright unit in a crawl space? :eek: I hate to see equipment in crawl spaces period, but to put an upright in a crawl, Grrrrr. :confused:
When hanging a unit from floor joists, there needs to be some sort of vibration dampening system in the suspension, otherwise I would certainly say go with it.

[shimp]

yes grady-its true..their ignorance is my spendafortune:)
what type vibration damping system do you refer, as i dont know this either?
thank u 4 your wealth of knowledge and replies.
shimpster

[Grady]

When I used to use a lot of York equipment, they had a suspension kit you attached to the air handler. It was basically two pieces of channel iron screwed to the unit. Each piece had holes in each end into which you inserted rubber gromets (for lack of a better description) & the threaded rod to actually hang the unit went thru the gromet. The rubber prevented any vibration from being transfered to the floor joists or rafters in the case of an attic installation.
If the installer uses angle or channel iron & rests the air handler on it they could use anti-virbation pads between the unit & the angle or channel.

[shimp]

thanks grady, now i understand what the damper does.

you think attic would be a better location for the unit, as you said you hated to see units in crawl spaces?
please share thoughts/ideas.
thank you
shimpster

[Grady]

Heat works best from the floor & cooling best from the ceiling. It would be a major job to re-do all of your ductwork. If your crawl is dry, that's a big plus. Moisture is the major killer of air handlers in a crawl.

[Ed Imeduc]

Id say you or him build a small wooden stand that you can lay a horizontal heatpump unit on .Down there in the crawl space. not hang from the joist line. Also make sure and put two register outlets and one return down there in the duct work and seal up the crawl space. Also go to http://aboutsavingheat.com/crawlspace.html
Have put many in this way over the years. Ill take the crawl space over an attic any time. You dont say what you have down there now is there a 6 mil poly on the ground and all walls have insulation on them???

ED ;)

[shimp]

Hi and thanks for info Ed:)
the crawl space floor is dirt with sparsely spread dense grade gravel/rock.
-have to wear knee and hand protection when im under there cause the gravel chews off my skin..

no insulation on the foundation walls.
no vapor barrier on the ground or under the gravel.
there is insulation between the floor joists, but is has the vapor barrier facing into the crawl space, and most of it is falling down.

there is no register outlets or return duct into the crawl space, would doing this increase utility bill trying to heat and cool crawl space?

what size registers and return duct would you put into crawl space?

also, fella mentioned putting a condensation pump on the unit, and running the condensation line out thru the foundation .?

the wooden stand you mentioned building to place the unit on, it will need to be anchored/stationary?(if any pics to give me an idea would appreciate)

home is a 1 story ranch all on same level,about 30 years old, 2500 square feet living space.
located in south central kentucky, humidity is a real killer here, especially in spring/summer, humidity can reach/hover at 90% plus.

Ed, if you could list the steps/actions/suggestions i need to do the crawl space, i will be greatful.

[Ed Imeduc]

I know what you mean on the insulation up in the joist. Bad bad bad .Have had to rework all kinds with that set up. Take it all down and out. Then go with the 6 mil poly on the floor over lap it 2 ft tape all seams up the walls some. 2" to 3 " insulation on the walls and a R 19 block of insulation in each joist space there on the sill plate all around the home Close and block all outside vents to the crawl space. Use all metal duct and pipe. With 2 small registers in the heat duct and one small grill in the cold air drop. Make sure the intake air goes through the air filter. You will find that the crawl space will work as a heat sink for you for heat and cool and will save you on fuel cost for sure.
fella mentioned putting a condensation pump on the unit, and running the condensation line out thru the foundation .? for sure go that way

the wooden stand you mentioned building to place the unit on, it will need to be anchored/stationary
Just think like a small work bench or table is all for the unit to lay down on is all you need. We set lots of units on just cement blocks is all in a crawl space. Dont hang from the floor at all. That makes it just like the duct work in a basement.

Did you go to that www I gave you and read it all?????

ED ;)

[shimp]

hi Ed

thanks to you and grady for the advice.

Ed i read the www you gave me, thanks.
ill re-read it several more times to get a good understanding.

after i remove all the insulation between the floor joists, do i replace it or just leave it out?

ill do the poly vapor barrier on the ground and up the foundation walls.

the 2" to 3" insulation on the foundation walls, is this the fibergl*** bat or a type of foam board?

ill insulate with the bat on all the joist spaces at the sill plate.

will close /block all outside vents.

definitely re-do ductwork with metal components.

going to need 2 small registers in the heat duct and one small grill in the cold air drop, making sure the intake air goes through the air filter.->
What size registers and grill you think it will require?

now,thanks to your explanation about the wooden stand to place unit on, i have a few ideas.

Condensation pump, would you route it to a 'pit'/low area and pump from there?

Dealer says ill need a 4 ton unit for 2500 sq ft, sounds right to you?

thank you
shimpola

[mattison]

On your condensate pump question. The a/c's condensation line will dump into the condensate pump then the pump will send it outside.

Is there a chance you can link us to some pictures of the way this is set up now. I would love to see it.

Ed and Grady has covered all the bases for you, that's for sure.

[shimp]

On your condensate pump question. The a/c's condensation line will dump into the condensate pump then the pump will send it outside.

Is there a chance you can link us to some pictures of the way this is set up now. I would love to see it.

Ed and Grady has covered all the bases for you, that's for sure.

hi mattison

it aint set up now, the unit is in a 'pit', with moisture/condensation running down the sides into the dirt pit!!

[Ed Imeduc]

after i remove all the insulation between the floor joists, do i replace it or just leave it out?

Keep it out dont put any up there at all do like that www said.

ill do the poly vapor barrier on the ground and up the foundation walls.

the 2" to 3" insulation on the foundation walls, is this the fibergl*** bat or a type of foam board?

"What ever" you can hang like the insulation from the sill plate. Some have glued foam to the walls what ever. If paper V/B, paper to the crawl space.

The dealer should run heat loss and AC load for home as to size.Also dealer should put in the small condensate pump for the units as part of the job.

ED ;)

[shimp]

Ed
thanks mucho for all the help/advice,truly appreciated.
shimpola:)