Kitchen Cabinet Paint Logistics Questions

[Chrisatunc]

Howdy-

I'm painting my kitchen cabinets and I'm replacing all hardware (hinges and pulls). Currently it's hardwood frames and fiberboard doors. I know I need new cabinets in 5 years anyway but I want to paint them now. I don't want to deal with new doors; I'll get those when I get new cabinets.

(In case you're curious, I'm using oil-based [start edit] X-I-M [stop edit] and then topcoating with Sherwin-Williams Proclassic oil-based white gloss)

Logistics questions - what do y'all think:

The proposed detailed order of operations

1) Clean/Sand doors while they're still mounted
2) remove doors and install new hinges on the doors (drill new holes and plug old holes if the hinge holes don't align right) and drill holes for the single-screw pulls (and fill the old holes from the old 2-screw pulls)
3) clean//fill holes/prime/paint the frames
4) install doors
5) prime/paint the doors (a little paint on hinges is better than paint 'ruts' on the doors from having them sit on something, right?)
6) install pulls

How does that sound? I know I can do it a number of ways but sometimes there is a well-known method to the madness. I'm trying to do this in a few days as possible and I do not want to do a-z in sections of the kitchen. I only want to deal with oil-based paint fumes for one long weekend.

2) The insides of the cabinets

Do most people go all the way and paint the insides, too, or do people say 'they're closed 99% of the time so leave it be'? What have people done to 'resurface' the shelves inside the cabinets without creating a big edge? Just paint and then shelf liner? custom-cut vinyl? Plywood was recommended once but there are sooooo many things I'd rather do than custom cut plywood bottoms for my cabinets (if it's just for cosmetics).

[marksr]

Just a few suggestions
If you haven't already purchased the paint [or didn't have it tinted] I would use proclassic waterborne - it dries as hard as oil enamel, dries quickly, and has low odor.
Paint the doors while they are down. It is a whole lot easier and quicker when you don't have to worry about keeping the hardware clean. I always paint 1 side and let it dry before turning over or paint both sides leaving the bottom edge to paint later.
The insides of the cabinet is all a matter of personal choice. The doors usually are closed but IMO it looks better if the inside of the doors are painted. The shelfs can either be left as is, painted or covered with shelving paper.
Other than that everything you mentioned sounds good. :)

[noleguy33]

Great method... I would go with marks opinion on the product too... except I would use bennymoore's waterborne satin impervo, a little high solids content and VASTLY superior ;) Actually... either product is a good choice, only thing I will say, and maybe mark can chime in about the SW product.. is that BM's is a bit runny and sometimes a bit more difficult to deal with. Another option would be to take a regular latex enamel and add Floetrol to it.. that will help you get a nice smooth finish. One word of wisdom, latex paint dries extremely quickly.. but that creates a "barrier" to the paint underneath, so the cure time on latex paint can be much longer than oil. So you might notice your cabinents sticking for a week or so... a little wax paper in between would take care of that. good luck!

-noleguy

[Chrisatunc]

Thanks for the advice. I do already have the oil-based Proclassic, and I can't switch to BM because I've worked three summers at SW in the past and my brother is a manager there now. I'm going to put some penetrol in the mix to soften the lines.

Why did I post here for paint advice if my bro is a manager? Well, one, my bro repeatedly laughs at me for over-thinking things and I couldn't get away with this proposal, and two, if I asked his advice and didn't take it then he would forever be critical of my cabinets every time he saw them (regardless of how good a job I did). I'd rather not hear it from him.

Man, you must have all kinds of floor space if you can lay your doors down on their side to paint. And you must have patience beyond me if you can wait for one side to dry and flip them to do the second side. I don't really have that kind of space or time available nor would I want to take it up with doors. What about dust settling on the flat surface? I guess I was looking for someone to reaffirm my thought about leaving the doors up, but 2 out of 3 say down. Oh well. Thanks for the opinions nonetheless! I learn more when people suggest different things than I do when they simply agree.

I do appreciate the thought on the insides. I guess I'll take the time to do the insides, although I think I will leave it for another time since they're less critical.

-Chris

[marksr]

Never used BM waterborne but have heard good things about it. SWP waterborne works well but dries fast and doesn't like to be over brushed [but I don't like to paint that way anyhow] I would not recomend latex enamel. It doesn't dry hard enough and is apt to chip or peel when abused. I have never had any problems with pro classic waterborne sticking and if need be it is very sandable [unlike latex enamel]

[prowallguy]

I agree on the finish product. Both SW and BM water-borne products are good, though have a slight learning curve as compared to other paints. Like noleguy said, they will run if applied too thick.
I also say paint them when off the cabinets. Its way too hard to cut around the hinges and whatnot. Make sure if you take them down to keep them in order, and put them back up exactly where they came from. You don't want to try to put a puzzle together when its done.

Chrisatunc, are you an engineer?

[Chrisatunc]

Not an engineer but if I could have gotten into an engineering program at the beginning of college then it might have been a good fit.

I'm weary of starting this job now since I'm doubting my ability to do it in one weekend. Oil-based paint simply doesn't dry fast enough!!

[marksr]

If the paint wasn't tinted you can take it back and exchange it for waterborne. If not you can add japan drier to oil base paint to speed up the drying process. If you use japan drier - read the instructions, if you add too much it will affect the sheen and you may wind up painting it all over again.

[Chrisatunc]

1/2 way through....primer is done, most of the first topcoat is done, and I digured that the last topcoat plus rehanging 17 doors is the latter half.

Some product comments:

X-I-M is interesting stuff. Bonding Primer Sealer. Very thin. It went on well with the 4" foam roller and even with its extremely quick dry time it smoothed out better than I thought.

ProClassivc Waterbourne - that is the smoothest most wonderful trim/cabinet paint I've ever used, but I'm going to stand up and say that it sucks with a foam roller. You have to load it up heavy or else it pulls up bubbles (which might leave a stippled surface). So - it's good if you have that flat surface between the top of the cabinets and the ceiling, but the frames had to be done by brush b/c the roller - if you had 'enough' paint on it - would leave runs/drips.

I did an experiment with my doors. For the first coat on the outer side I did half with the roller and half with a brush. Like I said above, the roller usually put it on thin and it you went heavy it would run down the edge and I'll probably find drip bubbles when I turn the doors over. And it still seemed like it wasn't as glossy this morning. The brush side had more paint on it; I used a 3" wall brush with no angle and a thick ferrulle) and therefore I applied it heavy. I know that two coats thin is better than one thick coat, but with this stuff a thin rolled coat didn't meet my satisfaction. This morning, further examination confirmed my suspicion that the brushed doors would look richer. The rolled ones looked ok but they looked 'stressed' - a second coat will probably help - but the brushed ones had a great look the first time. I will certainly topcat a second time for all surfaces, though.

Yes, I did take the doors all the way off the hinges and so far it's been ok. I'm not happy with the edges though. They're doing what I thought they would: It's always resting on something and I feel like I'm going to be sanding the door edges forever to get rid of the inevitable 'mounds' of paint that form on the underside. But I did realize what you all knew all along in that you can't the frames right with the doors still there. It would have been hard to sand, too.

Good call on recommending the switch to waterbourne product. Well, for application ease, at least - I'm going to find out right now how well or poorly it sands. I have to correct the bad spots from the rollers...and the door edges, of course.

-Chris

[marksr]

Although I have never rolled the SWP waterborne [brushed and sprayed tons] I believe your roller problems come from your choice of foam roller cover. A better cover should help. 1/4" mohair would be my choice. Of course IMO you can get good results with a brush.

[prowallguy]

We just did 48 cabinet doors in my shop last week. We laid it on a bucket, rolled and tipped the facing, then dabbed the 4 edges with a brush. Then, always keep a damp rag handy, and wipe the underside edges to keep it from pooling up, creating the mounds. When dry, flip and repeat.

[kimeyers]

I did my cabinet doors on sawhorses with 2 X 4 running between the sawhorses. On top of the 2 x 4 's I used plastic disposable cups, small side up--4 to a door. Balanced the doors well, no drips that couldn't be wiped away. The only problems--if you don't have a dry surface when you flip your doors, they could pick up the color of the cups, and don't try to sand between coats on the cups.

[grandallbrown]

ProCl***ivc Waterbourne ?? What the 3 *** stand for?Also where do you pick this stuff up?
Thanks

[marksr]

ProCl***ivc Waterbourne ?? What the 3 *** stand for?Also where do you pick this stuff up?
Thanks

I ***ume the name has been edited by the moderators. You can buy it at sherwin williams. As long as you tell them you want a waterborne enamel they will know what it is.

[the deacon]

rolled and tipped the facing, then dabbed the 4 edges with a brush.
what does this mean?
I am purchasing new cabinets but can't find them in the color we want (or if we do, they are too expensive). So I was planning on painting them before we install them. The cabinets are basic frame and panel oak. Are there any special considerations I should take into account other than what was posted on this thread?

thanks
deacon

[prowallguy]

The *** in ProClassic means the admin has been playing around with the censorship software, and it picked out the 'a$$' part of the word. They have been made aware that is blanking out real words, and are trying to fix it.

Edit: it seems to be fixed now.

[prowallguy]

The Deacon, click on this thread (http://forum.doityourself.com/showthread.php?t=198934&highlight=roll+lay+method) for instructions on painting cabinets/furniture with the roll and tip method. Its sometimes referred to as roll on, lay off method.

[the deacon]

great, thanks for the link.


deacon