Carpentry and Woodworking - Large shelf in coffered ceiling area
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XSleeper
07-05-05, 09:20 PM
Well, here's the latest in my ongoing coffered ceiling project. To bring you up to speed, here's what it looked like some time ago before the drywall was hung: http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/thexsleeper/detail?.dir=/d01c&.dnm=70e4.jpg&.src=ph
Well, now the owner has decided that he'd like a shelf of sorts installed around the bottom perimeter of the coffered ceiling (an 8 1/2' x 15 1/2' area). And not just any shelf- he'd like it to be "wavy" and wide, and backlit with some sort of light on top- maybe just a rope light. His idea is to nail plywood to the bottom of the coffered area and then cut it with a jigsaw in a "wavy" fashion so that there is a deep corner shelf area, and then perhaps another wide shelf area (perhaps 16" wide) in the middle of the 15 1/2' span, and also one in the middle of the 8 1/2' side.
My problem is making something that won't sag, can hold not only its own weight and also the stuff he wants to display on it! I really don't think that "nailing plywood onto the bottom of the 2x4's and cutting it out" would last very long or even hold its own weight without sagging.
Sawdustguy once mentioned that he will put 1/8" flat steel bar stock into a slot and sandwich it between 2 sheets of plywood, glued together. This would give the plywood more rigidity and resistance to sagging. Not sure if I need to use that idea or not. I'm still in the planning stages.
In my mind, the shelf needs to begin about 9" up from the finished bottom of the coffered wall area. I will probably put up some steel brackets (11 1/2" x 8 1/8") and then cover them with poplar and veneer the front so that they look like they are solid wood gussets. Then install 2x4 backing and 6" crown moulding around the inside perimeter of the opening. (between the wood encased steel brackets) The "wavy shelf" will get installed on top of this.
On top of the wavy shelf, I'll probably need to install a baseshoe or quarter round just to finish off the back side of the shelf.
Sound good? Anything else I should consider? I'm not sure if I want to use the flat steel idea, or just glue 2 layers of plywood together and nail a solid wood face on it.
Well, now the owner has decided that he'd like a shelf of sorts installed around the bottom perimeter of the coffered ceiling (an 8 1/2' x 15 1/2' area). And not just any shelf- he'd like it to be "wavy" and wide, and backlit with some sort of light on top- maybe just a rope light. His idea is to nail plywood to the bottom of the coffered area and then cut it with a jigsaw in a "wavy" fashion so that there is a deep corner shelf area, and then perhaps another wide shelf area (perhaps 16" wide) in the middle of the 15 1/2' span, and also one in the middle of the 8 1/2' side.
My problem is making something that won't sag, can hold not only its own weight and also the stuff he wants to display on it! I really don't think that "nailing plywood onto the bottom of the 2x4's and cutting it out" would last very long or even hold its own weight without sagging.
Sawdustguy once mentioned that he will put 1/8" flat steel bar stock into a slot and sandwich it between 2 sheets of plywood, glued together. This would give the plywood more rigidity and resistance to sagging. Not sure if I need to use that idea or not. I'm still in the planning stages.
In my mind, the shelf needs to begin about 9" up from the finished bottom of the coffered wall area. I will probably put up some steel brackets (11 1/2" x 8 1/8") and then cover them with poplar and veneer the front so that they look like they are solid wood gussets. Then install 2x4 backing and 6" crown moulding around the inside perimeter of the opening. (between the wood encased steel brackets) The "wavy shelf" will get installed on top of this.
On top of the wavy shelf, I'll probably need to install a baseshoe or quarter round just to finish off the back side of the shelf.
Sound good? Anything else I should consider? I'm not sure if I want to use the flat steel idea, or just glue 2 layers of plywood together and nail a solid wood face on it.
Lugnut
07-06-05, 09:52 AM
Quote, "...then perhaps another wide shelf area (perhaps 16" wide) in the middle of the 15 1/2' span, and also one in the middle of the 8 1/2' side..."
I can't visualize how these middle shelfs are designed, since you will have a perimeter shelf 360 degrees around the ceiling. Will they intersect? Be long unsupported runs?
Aside from that. My first thought is that a 3/4" x 15" deep shelf will look out of proportion to the walls and ceiling. Visually too thin (3/4) for it's depth.
Ignoring the wavy design for a moment, I would consider a platform shelf that gives a built in, permanent, rigid appearence. Something that resembles a mantle (fireplace) instead of a flimsy shelf. Basically constructed like a kitchen cornice (over the upper cabinets - 2x4 and faced with drywall or lumber), but of course, modified down to be a platform, say 4 1/2" x 15" x 15 1/2 ft.
Lots of possiblities with the platform, such as drywall finish, or oak faced with crown.
I can't visualize how these middle shelfs are designed, since you will have a perimeter shelf 360 degrees around the ceiling. Will they intersect? Be long unsupported runs?
Aside from that. My first thought is that a 3/4" x 15" deep shelf will look out of proportion to the walls and ceiling. Visually too thin (3/4) for it's depth.
Ignoring the wavy design for a moment, I would consider a platform shelf that gives a built in, permanent, rigid appearence. Something that resembles a mantle (fireplace) instead of a flimsy shelf. Basically constructed like a kitchen cornice (over the upper cabinets - 2x4 and faced with drywall or lumber), but of course, modified down to be a platform, say 4 1/2" x 15" x 15 1/2 ft.
Lots of possiblities with the platform, such as drywall finish, or oak faced with crown.
XSleeper
07-06-05, 04:15 PM
Sorry Lugnut, in the midst of my rambling I wasn't too clear. The middle shelves I was referring to would be the WIDEST part of the shelf as it waves in and out. The wavy shelf would be at its widest in the middle of each side.
After speaking to the owner again, he's pretty dead set on making it as thin as possible- 1/2" oak plywood, with a thin solid oak face, the way it sounds. He thinks making it beefier would be self-defeating since we don't want it to come down. The way it sounds, rather than using shelf brackets from below, I might use heavy steel "L" shaped pieces that can be bolted above the shelf, which the shelf will sit on. It also sounds like the shelf will be 12" max.
Personally, I'd still prefer to glue 2 layers of 3/4 plywood together. Like you said, lugnut, it's going to look a little flimsy otherwise. And with the steel support, I'm not too afraid of it coming down.
The upper portion of the steel "L" will get let into the drywall and be bolted to the header, then covered by wainscoting... a project for another day, perhaps.
After speaking to the owner again, he's pretty dead set on making it as thin as possible- 1/2" oak plywood, with a thin solid oak face, the way it sounds. He thinks making it beefier would be self-defeating since we don't want it to come down. The way it sounds, rather than using shelf brackets from below, I might use heavy steel "L" shaped pieces that can be bolted above the shelf, which the shelf will sit on. It also sounds like the shelf will be 12" max.
Personally, I'd still prefer to glue 2 layers of 3/4 plywood together. Like you said, lugnut, it's going to look a little flimsy otherwise. And with the steel support, I'm not too afraid of it coming down.
The upper portion of the steel "L" will get let into the drywall and be bolted to the header, then covered by wainscoting... a project for another day, perhaps.