Heat Pumps and Electric Heating - Pricing guestimates on new heat pump

We have a 13 year old Trane Weathertron High Energy Heat Pump XE 1100 that it looks like we'll have to replace. (We've been told that we'll have to replace it because a compression test shows that some seal or other has broken/weathered to the point that water can get in. We opted to wait it out, and now it appears it's finally failed because it's barely blowing out any cool air. We did have a capacitor replaced last year when it did this same thing.) I'm trying to educate myself in order to be a good consumer, so any help you can give me regarding:

1) any cost-effective tips on making it last another year, and, failing that,

2) what we can expect to pay for a new heat pump for a 1-story, 3/bedroom, ranch, on a slab, with less than 1700 sq. ft. (We've been told our furnace/transfer unit is probably way too large for the house, but that it's a great unit and in top condition. It was with the house when we bought it 2+ years ago.)

Thanks for any help!
Carla

hraka.rah

Your Weathertron is near the end of the average life for a heat pump. Is unit working and cooling properly? Obviously, you would not want to spend a great deal of $$$ on a system this old.

What size is your existing Heat Pump? You should ask your dealer to perform and provide a written Manual J heat/cool load calculation for determining the
proper size of new equipment. Am I correct that you have a gas furnace also or is it an air handler?

Next year, minimum gov't standard will be 13 SEER for AC. I recommend that you purchase a heat pump with a rated SEER of at least 13-14 and HSPF of 9+. You will require an outside Heat pump unit,new lineset, and matching evaporator coil or air handler.

I am not going to comment on prices as it will depend on the type equipment, size, and area of country you live.

Good Luck!
:)

Thanks very much TigerDunes!

The unit really isn't cooling much at all, so I think it probably is at the end. It's good to hear about the life-span from someone who isn't asking me to pay a very large bill. ;)

On the size of the heat pump, is there a way to tell this from the unit itself? All I've been able to find is serial numbers, model numbers, etc., and there was no literature on the unit left with the house when we bought it. I've done a little Web searching trying to find our model to see if there was size info out there, but was unsuccessful.

We do not have a gas furnace (no gas lines run to the house), so the air handler takes care of both heating/AC from the heat pump. We do have inconsistencies in the heating/cooling of the house (hot/cold rooms or areas), so I appreciate and will follow up on your recommendation to have a Manual J heat/load calculation done.

Thanks very much!

hraka.rah

(We've been told that we'll have to replace it because a compression test shows that some seal or other has broken/weathered to the point that water can get in. We opted to wait it out, and now it appears it's finally failed because it's barely blowing out any cool air. We did have a capacitor replaced last year when it did this same thing.)

Usually, the complete model number will give you the size of your Trane heat pump.

Is your compressor running? Is your air handler a Trane also? Matching systems are always best for achieving operating efficiency. Depending on your budget, I think I would get a second opinion on your unit unless you have total confidence in your HVAC tech's diagnosis.

Good Luck!
:)

TigerDunes,

The compressor is working. Yesterday I shut it down because it was barely blowing out lukewarm air. Because my daughter has asthma and I wanted some moving air in the night, I turned it on last night and turned the thermostat down to 60 (normally I keep it at 74). (Normally I wouldn't have done this, but since we've accepted that we'll need to replace the unit, I figured we couldn't really do more damage running it.) You can probably guess that at some point in the night it started cooling and we woke to a pretty cold house. This at least gives me the luxury of a few days to a week to get multiple estimates, which I have scheduled for later today and tomorrow. The air handler is an American Standard Inc., which I understand to be Trane.

In the event that we have to have the air handler and the heat pump replaced, are there brands out there that are better rated for reliability, longevity, durability, and efficiency than Trane?

Thanks!
hraka.rah

hraka.rah

I would have another HVAC tech look at your unit. I just don't have confidence that your first diagnosis was correct. It may not be as serious as first tech indicated. There again, I would not put a lot of $$$ into a repair. Remember that some dealers love replacing equipment and some give incentives to the techs that so advise and make the sale.

Depending where you live, I would recommend a minimum 13 SEER and 9+ HSPF. My personal opinion is that Trane/American Std make the best conventional heat pumps. If you elect to go new,get a matching complete system for better warranty and insist upon a Manual J heat/cool load calculation for determining right size.

Good Luck!
:)

a compression test shows that some seal or other has broken/weathered to the point that water can get in.

What?? :confused: :confused:

Your unit is aged and unmatched but like said, get a 2nd opinion.

Thanks all.

Just got an estimate on replacing. They're (of course) pushing to replace the air handler along with the compressor. For a 2-ton Bryant Puron compressor model 633 (he was very high on Bryant) with 12+ SEER and 24,000 BTUs they're quoting $3,304 and then $2,153 for the Bryant air handler.

To just replace the 2-ton Trane compressor, he quoted $2817.

When I asked him about the Manual J heat/load calculation, he didn't seem responsive. He said that everyone has used Manual J for 20 years and since our house is only 13 years old they would have used it when they put the units in originally. He said all it was was counting the windows and doors and calculating square footage. He was very dismissive about it. He also wasn't very responsive when I asked about the 13 SEER. (I forgot to ask about 9+ HSPF.)

Even if the next two quotes are higher, I won't go with him because he was too arrogant for my taste.

If you don't mind my imposing further, I have a few more questions:

1) should I be persistent for a formal Manual J calculation? Other than the threat of not getting my business, are there some simple responses I can use if rebuffed again on it?

2) He pressed me to go with a Puron system. He said that for future resale value it was important because beginning in 2010 Freon will be banned (with the grandfathered exceptions) and anyone buying the house won't care if the system's not very old because the cost of upkeep/recharging a Freon system will be so high it will cancel out the value of a younger system.

3) Do the prices seem appropriate?

4) I live in Indianapolis, Indiana, if anyone has a good HVAC recommendation for me. (I'm going off of Angie's List right now.)

I have a service call scheduled for tomorrow, so I'll get that second opinion and find out how much that might cost.

Thanks so much for all your help. This is an amazing reference, and I'm so grateful for your help!

:) Carla

hraka.rah

1.The Manual J is the professional method of sizing equipment and is used by all reputable dealers. Insist upon a written copy. This gives you the homeowner a measure of protection if there is a sizing issue following installation. Any dealer that does not provide it, then send them on their way. I also recommend doing business only with authorized dealers. You can usually find these on the manufacturer's website.

2.Carrier/Bryant dealers push Puron units(R-410a) and usually quote higher than R-22 units. Nothing is wrong with these units-just don't pay more for R-410a equipment. Get at least 3 quotes and I strongly recommend a complete matched system-inside and outside plus a new lineset regardless of refrigerant type.

3.Price seems high for 2 ton system.

4.I do not know dealers in this area. Recommend you discuss this with neighbors,friends, fellow workers for recommendations.

Keep in mind heat pumps have 2 ratings-SEER for AC and HSPF for heating. You should insist upon a heat pump with a rated SEER of 13-14 and an HSPF of 9-9.5. Let us know what your 2nd opinion tech says about your Trane. Again my opinion is that Trane/Am Std make the best conventional heat pumps.

Good Luck!
:)

What would you think of $6,170 for a Trane XL14 2-ton heat pump with an ASI air handler (matching set) with a Honeywell Envirocare humidifier and a Honeywell Envirocare F-100 media air cleaner, a 14-year warranty on parts and labor for compressor, condenser coil, evaporator coil, and airhandler, and a 12 year warranty on labor? (Oh, and the Honeywell Focus Pro digital thermostat included.)

The rub is that they're the only ones who can install tomorrow (less than 24 hours after the quote). The other quotes I have are less expensive, but are on different products, with shorter warranties (Bryant for only 5 years/ Lennox for 10), and installation next Monday at the earliest.

I'm trying to remain calm and not do something rash, but the temp is getting ready to soar into the 90s with 70-80% humidity and I have a 3-year old with asthma.

With the Trane, they guaranteed my energy bills would be reduced by 35% with the unit (using previous energy usage as a gauge). This is about $30 a month, plus with the unit our local energy company will be sending us a $100 rebate.

Am I being dazzled by the warranties (which won't mean anything until the unit's much older and we might be gone by then) and other pretty things? Does this seem like a smart decision? We cannot afford any of this, but we know we have to do it, but the side-by-side comparisons all lead me to Trane with the greater long-term value but the $600 upfront downside.

I just don't want to be screwed without knowing that's what's happening.

Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

Many thanks,
hraka.rah

Are you going to stay in the home for 10 years or more go for it. Just make sure all that they said is down in black and white on paper. Also R 22 will be made till 2030. just they will stop making units for R22 in 2010 but you can still get parts for R22 units


ED :thinker:

About 2 months ago I replaced my old Trane heat pump with a new 3 ton Trane XL 16I and new indoor unit as well. Variable fan as well. Used a Trane comfort specialist. Unit installed was 6900 with a $800 Trane rebate and a $650 rebate from my utility company.
I am very happy with the new unit. There was a 7-10 degree temperature difference between up and downwstairs in the last few years. Very uncomfortable upstairs. Complete difference this year. Whole house is more comfortable and energy bills are down about 30%.

Howard

hraka.rah


2.Carrier/Bryant dealers push Puron units(R-410a) and usually quote higher than R-22 units. Nothing is wrong with these units-just don't pay more for R-410a equipment. Get at least 3 quotes and I strongly recommend a complete matched system-inside and outside plus a new lineset regardless of refrigerant type.


Good Luck!
:)

Hi, what is " a new lineset" ?

Thanks

Copper pipe that the freon flows in.