Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Patio Cover - No place for posts

I'm trying to come up with a plan for a lattice style patio cover, similar to the one shown in this link:

[URL=http://www.strongtie.com/ftp/catalogs/c-diy04/C-DIY04-PatioProject.pdf]

The existing concrete patio is 10'(away from the house) x 25' (along the side of the house). I'm in east Texas & have a hip roof. This side of the house has gutter installed. There is no physical room to attach a ledger board to the house. I'm now toying with the idea of making a free standing cover over the patio, quite close to the house but not actually attached. My hang up is still the 25' support beam. If I put support posts at appropriate places along the 25' span, they'll be perfectly in the way & just not look right.

One of my work buddies has mentioned a "lam beam" as being strong enough to be supported at either end of the 25' & not have to put any posts in between. Does anyone have any expertise with using a lam beam in this application or any other suggestions.

It's also important to point out that this patio cover will not be roofed. It will have 2x6 rafters & probably 2x2 lattice beams. I guess what I'm saying is it will not have a tremendous load to it.

Any & all help is appreciated

My first thought is: attach a 2x10 ledger to the house directly underneath your soffit. (is there room?) You would need at least 3 posts in front- and set a 2x10 header on top of them. (notch the 6x6 and bolt) Forget trying to span 25' in one shot (that's insane) because you'd need a very wide, very expensive beam to do that. You'll basically create a 10X25 box out of 2x10's, supported by notched 6x6's at the corners and in the middle. Your 2x6's will then run 10' from the house outward, and be supported on each end by joist hangers (or if you prefer, run a 2x2 under them and toenail them.) Your 2x2s can run perpendicular to the 2x6's. It will look pretty much exactly like they have pictured on that web site.

If you use 6x6 posts (router a 1/2" roundover on all 4 corners) then 4x4 gussets will work well and look good.

This is exactly my problem. There is no room for a ledger board to attach to the house. Under the soffit, there is only a 1x4 trim. Below that is windows, door frame, etc. (if your at all interested, I'd be happy to email you a pic to help visualize) Most of the patio area is in front of 4 windows & a french door. As a novice, I can see only a few options. Posts along the 25' length both front & back. Closest to the house, this would put them about 2' away from the house & perfectly in front of the windows as well as losing useable space on the patio. The lam beam option. As you say, it would be very expensive but can it be done? Another "do it yourselfer" suggested I attach small lengths of 2x4 to the existing 2x4's under the facia to extend away from the house just past the gutter. I'm not convinced this would offer much support at all. What do you think?

Thanks,
-Bill

Bill,

I can picture your setup... a lot of homes have the windows just under the soffit level. Perhaps you could post your house picture to a web site like yahoo, then paste the link here so that we can look at it.- or you could send me an email.

Adding the 2x4's onto the rafter tails is also not your solution, it would provide negligible support.

The problem with laminated beams is their weight and cost. The longer the beam, the wider it has to be to even carry its own weight without deflecting, let alone anything else. If you did get, say a 4" x 16" beam, it would be so heavy that you'd need a crane to put it in place. You could also use 2 LVL's that are 1 3/4 wide and bolt them together. But in answer to your question, yes it could be done. A tall beam would either stick way above your roof, or you'd have to duck under it. Steel I-beams would also be no fun to work with.

You'll need to get some answers from an engineer to determine how big of a beam you would need. he'll want to know how much weight will be on it. The other problem is, you'll need to brace the thing somehow. having one post at each corner means you can only brace the corners, which won't be as strong as if you had several posts inbetween to brace.

Here's a radical idea for you. Build a gable end onto your roof that is 26' wide or so directly above your planned patio cover. This would direct rainwater down the two resulting valleys. It would also enable you to remove the gutter and attach your ledger onto your rafter tails. problem solved! Unfortunately, that would also be expensive.

I've originally considered the gable roof addition idea. My problem with that is that being a novice, that project would be well beyond my capabilities. That would make it a contractor job and would probably take the cost into the thousands rather than the concept of the lattice style that would probably cost a couple of hundred.

What about this. The gutter is currently mounted to 1x6 trim, behind which is a 2x4 which is attached to the rafter tails. Currently, there is about 2" of trim below the gutter. What if I remove the gutter & 1x6 trim & replace it with a 2x10. I would then reattach the gutter & have 6" of space below that to mount the patio cover rafters. It might look a little odd, but at this point, I'm willing to consider all ideas. If this would work, where & how would I attach the 2x10 to the house. Would it have to be directly into the house rafter tails or merely into the 2x4 that is already attached to the rafter tails?

Thank you for all of your input. It is greatly appreciated.

-Bill

Roof mount it!! I do it all the time.

Use 8" angle brackets (1/8" X 1" X 8") and position them directly over a truss or rafter of the house roof, back up the roof so they are over the exterior wall of the house. Three #12 X 3" wood screws into the rafter (or truss chord) and seal both the screw head AND the edges of the bracket. Bend them to plumb, or whatever angle you might need for pitch on the cover, and attach your ledger of the cover to them.

I like lefty's plan. Heck, they probably even have a name for that... "California mount" or something! ;)

Ah...okay. I think I'm there with ya. Please check out the below link & let me know if this is the angle bracket you are describing.

[URL=http://http://www.strongtie.com/products/connectors/VTC2_PT.html]

When you say attach to the existing roof truss or rafter do you mean directly through the roof shingles? I'm assuming so, but thought I'd better verify. I'm sure by all of my basic questions you are able to tell that I'm very much a home improvement novice. So I apologize & give you another. Will my handy dandy stud finder locate the truss or rafters beneath the roof sheathing & shingles?

Thank you all for your help. I'm almost there.....I can feel it.

-Bill

Don't disturb the roofing. The bracket sits right on it and it's just the 3 screws that will penetrate the roofing, the sheathing, and go into the rafter.

Any hardware store will have the 8" angle brackets. They are 1/8" steel, an inch wide, and each leg is 8" long, with 3 screw holes in each leg.

Stud finder?? Why not just locate the rafter tails under the overhang and draw lines straight the roof? But if your soffit is enclosed, then the stud finder will work just fine.