Decks, Patios, Porches and Docks - Posts for two-deck porch
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bmallon
05-27-05, 10:34 AM
The back porch on my house is a open two decker with a roof on top of the second floor deck (dates from 1924!). We recently discovered that the 4x6 support posts are rotted and the whole structure needs to be replaced, with the exception of the second floor roof.
We had gotten a couple of bids with conflicting information. The porch is painted white now to match the house, and we want to continue with this look (i.e. we dont want a pressure-treated 'deck' look). Two of the contractors have proposed using Pressure Treated wood for the corner supports. They would then wrap them in primed pine so that they could be painted white.
The third contractor said he would use fir posts instead of PT wood, and that could be painted without needing to be wrapped. He also stated that the PT wood would split and possibly warp, and that the 'wrapped pine' could loosen or look bad because of this. He secondly was worried about the moisture in the PT wood being trapped inside the pine wrapping. Finally, he said that primed pine is not an outdoor product, so you wouldnt want to use it on a porch.
Can anyone weigh in on whether it is OK to use the PT/wrapped pine solution vs. the fir post solution. The fir post bid is significantly higher, so knowing what is the right thing to do would help make the decision.
Finally, there is some debate over whether 4x4, 4x6, or 6x6 posts are needed to support the porch. Any recommendations?
Thanks.
- Bob
We had gotten a couple of bids with conflicting information. The porch is painted white now to match the house, and we want to continue with this look (i.e. we dont want a pressure-treated 'deck' look). Two of the contractors have proposed using Pressure Treated wood for the corner supports. They would then wrap them in primed pine so that they could be painted white.
The third contractor said he would use fir posts instead of PT wood, and that could be painted without needing to be wrapped. He also stated that the PT wood would split and possibly warp, and that the 'wrapped pine' could loosen or look bad because of this. He secondly was worried about the moisture in the PT wood being trapped inside the pine wrapping. Finally, he said that primed pine is not an outdoor product, so you wouldnt want to use it on a porch.
Can anyone weigh in on whether it is OK to use the PT/wrapped pine solution vs. the fir post solution. The fir post bid is significantly higher, so knowing what is the right thing to do would help make the decision.
Finally, there is some debate over whether 4x4, 4x6, or 6x6 posts are needed to support the porch. Any recommendations?
Thanks.
- Bob
lefty
05-27-05, 02:33 PM
Go ask your local bldg. dept. what to use that they will approve and how it has to be attached so that they will approve it. That's the only way you can build it so that they will sign off on the permit.
Whether you could use doug fir for the posts or not depends on how far above grade or a concrete slab the bottom of the post is. If the bottom of the post is sitting on top of a footing that is 8" or more dirt or a concrete slab, then you could use it. If the bottom of the post is closer to dirt or a concrete slab than 8", then you can't use it.
Size all depends on the height of the posts and what load they have to support. Size of the beams involved depends on how far they are spanning and the loads they have to support.
Whether you could use doug fir for the posts or not depends on how far above grade or a concrete slab the bottom of the post is. If the bottom of the post is sitting on top of a footing that is 8" or more dirt or a concrete slab, then you could use it. If the bottom of the post is closer to dirt or a concrete slab than 8", then you can't use it.
Size all depends on the height of the posts and what load they have to support. Size of the beams involved depends on how far they are spanning and the loads they have to support.
shamrock
05-28-05, 01:53 PM
I never had a problem with wrapping a pressure treated pole for decorative purposes. We generally will use rough sawn cedar instead of pine.
WillK
05-28-05, 08:30 PM
Being a lay person, maybe I'm wrong about this, but I gotta ask about a red light that went off when I read what you described...
The first option you described involves PT posts, plus lumber going around the outside. (materials) Also, this would involve cutting the wrap-around lumber and installing it over the post...
The second option involves putting in fir posts (are they more expensive than PT?)
Both involve painting, although there is less surface in option 2... Material in option 2 should be less... Labor in option 2 should be less...
But your estimate on option 2 is much much more? Just on that basis, something doesn't sound right... Add in the scary story about the other option, and I'd be pretty uneasy about trusting that guy.
The first option you described involves PT posts, plus lumber going around the outside. (materials) Also, this would involve cutting the wrap-around lumber and installing it over the post...
The second option involves putting in fir posts (are they more expensive than PT?)
Both involve painting, although there is less surface in option 2... Material in option 2 should be less... Labor in option 2 should be less...
But your estimate on option 2 is much much more? Just on that basis, something doesn't sound right... Add in the scary story about the other option, and I'd be pretty uneasy about trusting that guy.
lefty
05-28-05, 10:59 PM
WillK,
I saw "red lights" too, but not the same ones you did.
First, WHAT is PT lumber, or rather what lumber is pressure treated, depends on where you're at. On the left coast, we use doug fir for everything. Framing material is doug fir, PT is either doug fir or hem-fir. That's because this is where it is grown. The pine we have here is a lesser grade of wood. Nobody here is going to Pressure Treat pine. If I walked into a local lumber yard and asked for PT pine, they would look at me like I was either stupid or filthy rich!!
Having explained that, PT fir around here is more expensive that non- PT fir. (The more you do to the board, the more expensive it's gonna be.) Fir will rot if you put it anyplace near the ground or near concrete. PT fir can be used either near ground or in direct contact with ground, depending on the species and how it is treated.
It may be different on the right coast, but bmallon's 3rd contractor around here would be considered all wet!!
I saw "red lights" too, but not the same ones you did.
First, WHAT is PT lumber, or rather what lumber is pressure treated, depends on where you're at. On the left coast, we use doug fir for everything. Framing material is doug fir, PT is either doug fir or hem-fir. That's because this is where it is grown. The pine we have here is a lesser grade of wood. Nobody here is going to Pressure Treat pine. If I walked into a local lumber yard and asked for PT pine, they would look at me like I was either stupid or filthy rich!!
Having explained that, PT fir around here is more expensive that non- PT fir. (The more you do to the board, the more expensive it's gonna be.) Fir will rot if you put it anyplace near the ground or near concrete. PT fir can be used either near ground or in direct contact with ground, depending on the species and how it is treated.
It may be different on the right coast, but bmallon's 3rd contractor around here would be considered all wet!!