boiler heating help


  #1  
Old 03-19-05, 09:25 AM
tylermr
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boiler heating help

Hi. I recently moved into a two story home with baseboard heat. I know little about the boiler system and I'm having trouble with it. There is suddenly no heat coming upstairs.

Here is what I know about the boiler: It's a gas boiler. It has two booster pumps, both new and apparently functioning. The pipes coming from the house to the pumps are HOT for one and warm for the other.

I tried bleeding the air from the system with the pumps on and no water came from most of the baseboards upstairs. I have no valves on the ones downstairs.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to leak the air out with the pumps running or not.

Thanks!
 
  #2  
Old 03-19-05, 03:51 PM
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tylermr

First, make sure there is enough pressure on the boiler. 15# should be plenty for a 2 story house. In rare cases, I have to go to 17-18#. To bleed the air, try it both ways, with & without the circulator on. If there is no problem downstairs, turn off any valves going to the downstairs loop then purge the upstairs loop.
 
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Old 03-19-05, 03:51 PM
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boiler heating help

tylermr:

It sounds like you have what's known as a 2-zone system with separate circulators supplying each of the 2 floors; could you try to check a few things & we'll see if some heat can be restored to the 2nd floor.

A) Could you check the PRESSURE or ALTITUDE gauge on the boiler; it should read about 15 psi in order for water to get up to the 2nd floor baseboard; you can bleed them when the system is off; you should get hissing air out of them & eventually water; if nothing comes out you have insufficient water pressure; this can be adjusted later.

B) could you see if you can find the flow check valve (flow control); this is near the circulator on the pipe near the boiler that leads to the 2nd floor radiators; it should have "flo-chek" stamped or written on it; if you can find it, turn the flat little keyway knob on the top of the valve to manually open the valve; this will allow some heated water from the operating 1st floor zone to circulate upstairs to provide some heat.

C) Could you try to trace the thermostat wire coming from the 2nd floor & see if it goes to a control box or a relay somewhere near the boiler or hanging nearby on the wall; if you can, temporarily turn off the boiler at the main switch (sometimes near the stair) & check for any loose or burned wires inside the control box or on the relay; turn the main switch back on when done.

D) take a piece of wood 2 X 3 or 2 X 4 & place it against both housings of the 2 pumps when the system is running; place your ear right on one end of the wood; if the pump is running, you will hear a loud humming; lightly tap the cast iron housing of the 2nd floor pump with the 2 X 4; this may start it up if its impeller shaft or bearing is frozen & on the way out.

Please post back with anything you've found.
 

Last edited by Chimney Cricket; 03-19-05 at 04:02 PM.
  #4  
Old 03-19-05, 05:38 PM
tylermr
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Thanks to both of you for the response. It appears that the pressure is low. It sits around 10#. I'm not sure how to adjust it. To answer the other questions, I have learned a bit more about my boiler.

1) When I bleed the system upstairs when the system is off, I get hissing air and no water.

2) My circulators are above the boiler and at the end of the cycle. They pull the water from the house and push it back to the boiler . . . if that makes sense. Maybe that's how they all work.

3) I'm not sure which one pumps water to the 2nd story, but I assume that the REALLY hot pipes come from the downstairs. The other one is just warm.

4) I found two valves like the one described. They were above the circulator pumps on vertical pipes and both pointed straight down. I turned the one on the warm pipes to point diagonally . . . I'm not sure what that did, but there is still no warm water getting upstairs (probably pressure).

5) Both circulators are wired to the same thermostat, which is downstairs . . . not the most effective method of heating, I imagine.

6) Both pumps are definitely pumping.

Thanks again. It appears that I need to figure out how to raise the pressure.
 
  #5  
Old 03-19-05, 05:58 PM
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look for this on your boiler
[http://www.wattsreg.com/products/images/hi-res/911.jpg]

ignore the brackets when using the link.

Take off the handle of the fill valveand get a small screw driver. Inside is a small screw,turn it slightly to increase your pressure.You should see the increase on your pressure gauge.
 
  #6  
Old 03-19-05, 06:02 PM
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Wink

#1 Bleed that up stairs till you get water with the pumps off. If you dont get air or water you have to get the pressure up to about 18lb for a 2 story are what ever it takes to get water out of the top bleeder.

#2 all the pumps do is make the water go round and round. they dont make any kind of pressure.

It appears that I need to figure out how to raise the pressure.
look for the auto fill valve should be with the P/R valve RED or GREEN. Back off the lock nut and turn the screw down just a 1/2 turn at a time and see if the pressure goes up pumps off. keep trying till you get water out of that top bleeder.

ED
 
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Old 03-19-05, 09:45 PM
tylermr
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Hmmmm . . .

I see nothing that looks anything like the picture, or anything that stands out as an autofill valve or P/R valve.

The water lead appears to come from the water softener to some sort of bladder tank (FILL-TROL) is where the water first exits the boiler. There is an air-valve near there as well, which I have now loosened to let more air out.

I shut off the water intake, just to see if I lose pressure. Nothing yet.
 
  #8  
Old 03-20-05, 03:07 PM
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Tylermr

You have made a common mistake with a fill-trol. Now you need a tire gauge (preferably one which only goes to 25-30#) & an air pump of some sort (bicycle pump works well). You need to get the pressure in the fill-trol bladder tank up to about 15#. A fill-trol will only feed water to match the pressure in the tank. It's no big deal, made the same mistake myself as a rookie. BTW, while adjusting the tank pressure, shut off the water to the fill-trol. Once you get the tank pressure up & open the valve, you will probably hear water feeding into the system.
 
  #9  
Old 03-20-05, 07:56 PM
tylermr
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Thanks for the info! How long should I expect to wait before the boiler reaches the appropriate psi? For some reason, the pressure is sitting at 5# right now, the lowest during the ordeal, though the downstairs is still getting heated.

Should I still bleed the air from the system at some point?
 
  #10  
Old 03-20-05, 09:33 PM
tylermr
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Water pressure fell below 5#. I don't think the water is getting into the boiler from the outside. Any way to check that?
 
  #11  
Old 03-20-05, 10:42 PM
tylermr
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Thumbs up Fill-trol Success!!!

Ah-hah! Praise the Lord! Thank you, thank you, thank you.

I feel like I should send you a check.

I got the pressure in the FILL-TROL tank to 15# but no water came in. I loosened the bolt on the end (remembering a time where water was spraying all over my basement when a washer went bad) to see if water was coming and the blessed sound of a faucet kicked on, filled the boiler system and allowed me to drain the air.

Working with the boiler has been a humbling experience.

Thank you VERY much for your help.

Tyler
 
  #12  
Old 03-21-05, 04:14 PM
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Tyler

You are most welcome & congrats on getting the heat going. You have successfully completed Fill-trol 101.
If you have any more boiler problems, we are here & eager to help if we can.
 
 

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