Toilets, Sinks, Showers, Tubs and Disposals - Changing out toilet shutoff valve
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tinaowens
03-02-05, 08:59 PM
This may sound too simple to ask but as part of a far more difficult project (involving ripping out the subfloor, etc.) I needed to remove the toilet shutoff valve to get my circular saw as close to the wall as possible. Since I was going to be taking the whole thing off anyway, I thought I'd just replace it with a new one, new escutcheon, etc, so I went down and bought all the new parts. However, when I actually sat down to remove the valve, I got it off, but it left the coupling nut and I guess it's the compression ring on the stubout coming from the wall. I can't get those two things off. If I don't get them off, I can't put on the new escutcheon (the old one is really groddy). Also, I see that the design of the new shutoff valve I bought is quite different in how it attaches: the threads on the wall end of the valve are on the inside (female), while the coupling nut needs the threads on the outside (male). Even if I get the nut and the compression ring off, I won't have anything to attach the valve to but a smooth pipe.
I'm thinking that the whole assembly is probably original with the house (1973) and maybe designs have changed? So, my problem is this: Do I have to just go back to the old groddy valve which actually does attach and doesn't leak, or can I put the new valve on and how to do so?
Learning new stuff every day!
Tina
I'm thinking that the whole assembly is probably original with the house (1973) and maybe designs have changed? So, my problem is this: Do I have to just go back to the old groddy valve which actually does attach and doesn't leak, or can I put the new valve on and how to do so?
Learning new stuff every day!
Tina
Kobuchi
03-03-05, 06:14 PM
Depends on what condition the old ring is in. They always stick like that, BTW, because half the seal is by crimping into the pipe as the nut gets tightened.
If the ring's front edge looks smooth, it will mate with a new valve just like the old one - they're common and not at all obsolete. Return the one you bought and rummage deeper. The valve will come with brand new ring and nut which of course you don't need, so check both rings look about the same, then put aside the redundant new nut and ring. Clean any grit and gunk off the old ring.
Slip the valve over the pipe end and tighten the old nut on. This nut doesn't seal, it just compresses the ring against both the pipe and valve body - nevertheless, I like to teflon tape the threads just so they won't be fused a decade later. Tighten with two wrenches, one on a flat of the valve body to stabilise it, and one turning the nut. You should feel smooth resistance, and you should stop when... hmm. :confused: Got a torque wrench? You should stop when you guess pulling on the valve would sooner rip the whole pipe out of the wall than break that joint. Over tightening will deeply crimp the copper pipe, weakening it, or force the ring into an oval shape, which will leak.
Then close the valve and test. If some water seeps out, tighten more.
Oops. I forgot the escutcheon! There are not-so-elegant snap-around types. Either that or cut the pipe just behind the old nut, and use the shiney new ring and nut put aside earlier.
If the ring's front edge looks smooth, it will mate with a new valve just like the old one - they're common and not at all obsolete. Return the one you bought and rummage deeper. The valve will come with brand new ring and nut which of course you don't need, so check both rings look about the same, then put aside the redundant new nut and ring. Clean any grit and gunk off the old ring.
Slip the valve over the pipe end and tighten the old nut on. This nut doesn't seal, it just compresses the ring against both the pipe and valve body - nevertheless, I like to teflon tape the threads just so they won't be fused a decade later. Tighten with two wrenches, one on a flat of the valve body to stabilise it, and one turning the nut. You should feel smooth resistance, and you should stop when... hmm. :confused: Got a torque wrench? You should stop when you guess pulling on the valve would sooner rip the whole pipe out of the wall than break that joint. Over tightening will deeply crimp the copper pipe, weakening it, or force the ring into an oval shape, which will leak.
Then close the valve and test. If some water seeps out, tighten more.
Oops. I forgot the escutcheon! There are not-so-elegant snap-around types. Either that or cut the pipe just behind the old nut, and use the shiney new ring and nut put aside earlier.
majakdragon
03-04-05, 05:58 AM
It sounds like what you bought is for a threaded pipe or adapter, not compression. Take the old valve with you and buy one exactly like it. Take a file and file through the ring left on the pipe being careful not to get into the pipe. Do this in two places and the ring will come off. Put the new escutcheon on, reinstall your new valve. If you have a Dremel and are REAL careful, you can cut the ring. Good luck.