bid for screened-in porch alarming

[jasper_60103]

Got a bid from a reputable contractor in Minnesota to build a 12'x12' screened-in porch attached to my house. Some details include cathedral ceiling, knotty pine finished ceiling, open gabel w/screen, low maint decking (timbertech) and 4' landing with stairs to ground, cedar railing and framing, pt deck under framing and 4x4 posts. This is a raised structure about 6' off the ground. He quoted me $18,782.

I'm still in the process of getting other quotes. This sounds awful high for a small porch like this or am I off base?

-jasper

[lefty]

"cathedral ceiling, knotty pine finished ceiling, open gabel w/screen, low maint decking (timbertech) and 4' landing with stairs to ground, cedar railing and framing, pt deck under framing and 4x4 posts. This is a raised structure about 6' off the ground. He quoted me $18,782."

Lots of 'extras' involved -- sounds like a reasonable bid, based on those 'extras'. See what the other bids come in at.

[Pendragon]

Sounds way high to me, maybe he just didn't want the job..

The pine ceiling, fake wood decking and cedar all raise the costs above norm, but not at that price. You could have a 2 car garage built for less than that.

Without running the numbers on it, 12x12, 5000 would be the high end to me, and that's allowing for some high labor costs.

[Hellrazor]

$5000? uhm.. not even close. The materials alone could land up costing close to that. I dont feel like scaling it out to figure it all out either. I ripped down and rebuilt a 10x22 deck last summer. All KDAT PT lumber, Geodeck decking/ railing/post sleeves/steps, plus all the hardware, i left the existing roof in place, just replaced the posts. The material bill alone was over $5000 at contractor pricing.

[Pendragon]

My covered 10x12 using all PT lumber (including 2x6's for floor) was less than $800 in materials, but I know the fake stuff runs a good 2-3x as much as PT.

Even factoring in all the cedar, I don't see 5 grand in just materials for that small of a structure unless that stuff has gotten way more expensive than I remember it being.

[lefty]

Pendragon,

$800 for a 10 X 12 PT deck is one thing. Now factor in the walls, the roof, the knotty pine ceiling, the fact that what jasper_60103 is talking about is 6' above grade, so the stairs will be substantial, -- plus, he's getting a price to HAVE it built. No, I don't think $18K is out of line.

[Pendragon]

Not a deck, covered porch, complete with roof, railings, 3' off grade, steps, etc.

If you think 18 grand is a good price for a 12x12 covered porch, go for it, short of lining it with marble, I don't see it, even with labor (well, maybe in the Peoples Republic of California), and I think you're getting ripped off. Ask the contractor to itemize, then compare prices on materials with what the going rate is. His materials list and prices should be about the same as any other contractors, and his prices should be lower than what you get quotes on, only his labor will change. If he can't (or won't) itemize, find another contractor.

Let us know what other quotes you get..

[jasper_60103]

Thanks for the feedback.
I have another guy coming out Thursday for an estimate.
I'll keep you'all posted.
thanks,
jasper

[Ed Imeduc]

For sure get 3 bids for the same job. It just ran my $2200 to just rescreen my pool. 24'X40' screen hip roof just 3 sides other 40'to the home.

ED ;)

[BobF]

I'd like to see the other estimates, too. But I wonder if there's more that we aren't being told. Aside from the ceiling and cedar, what other amenities does the poster want? Is this to be a three season room? That would be equivalent to a four season room for Pendragon (if its the Pendragon I know of).
Also - is there anything special for the piers? I imagine the frost line is quite a bit deeper than 30".

[jasper_60103]

I can say its defintely not a 3/4 season room, just a screen porch. Also, in Minneapolis/St. Paul, Minnesota, footings are required by code to be between 54 and 60 inches deep. I believe he said I would need 8.

This company has built 8 decks in my neighborhood, and I'm wondering why this is cost so much? Adding a roof and screen shouldn't be so much more.

Anyway, I'm awaiting the written estimate in the mail soon and hopefully can provide more details.

-jasper

[Bruce H]

Actually, frost depth in the Twin Cities is 42"; you have to go a ways north before you get to the 60" depth requirement.

As to cost, I think you may be able to get a little bit better price by getting other bids, but don't expect a huge drop. Labor costs here in the Cities are a lot higher than other parts of the state. And, according to average labor rates listed in a 2004 book I have in my office, our labor rates here in the Cities are about 22% higher than Jacksonville, Florida (the only Florida city they listed).

Good luck on your project.

Bruce

[IHI]

Anytime you attach something to a house that requires a roof, price goes up dramatically since the extra lumber and material needed to execute this properly costs money.

The better material your using costs more naturally and so will the labor to pull of the catherdral ceiling. For our area that might be a little steep, but given it's in the cities I think it may be close. Remember, 99% of all homeowners getting bids want to world, but only have enough money/budget in their head for a small parcel. Most of the time the little bit extra cost goes into peice of mind the job will be performed correctly and look good when they're done.

If you want a cheaper bid, go with a contractor with less than perfect work ethics and suffer the consequences. I can tell you how many jobs I've lost becaseu I was anywhere from $50-500 more than the other guy, but words does get around about how your project went (contractors talk and we all know each other through many different avenues) and more often than not headaches were a big part of the project. So proceed with caution. Good Luck.

If your getting what you pay for your not getting ripped off!! Tell the contractor your budget and this will alieviate 90% of bidding problems since we can tweak your "wants" to "what you can really afford"

[jasper_60103]

Don't get me wrong, I'm willing to pay a little more for a quality job (and peace of mind) if it was from a highly recommended company. Thats the reason I chose a reputable contractor. Also, I believe I know pretty much what I want.

My question is...is this price in the ball park? BTW, I wouldn't disclose my budget to someone I didn't know or trust. My budget is my business, it should have no bearing on the bid. Isn't that similar to telling a car dealer how much you're willing to spend? I (or my budget) will determine whether I can afford it or not.

-jasper

[IHI]

So long as your an educated consumer and sounds like the research your doing that is in your favor. I'm sure the other contractors on this board will attest to spending loads of time gathering information for an estimate then when submitted, it's just a blunt, "that's more than I figured, thanks for your time." and the majority dont want to sit down and start talking about where we can cuta the fat to get the job rolling.

One thing I will not cut into is my labor, I know what my time is worth and if homie wants a professionaly job, they're going to pay a professional price.

Let us know how you come out with the additional estimates, I'm sure they are smaller guys that are plenty capible of doing just as good a job as the big name company you got an estimate from, just be sure to ask your friends for references.

[jasper_60103]

Update. I went to the Home & Patio show in St Paul last weekend, and I had a chance to speak to several contractors about my project. It seems to be a broad range in pricing (some gave ballpark figures). Anyway, I met a few porch and deck builders and asked them for estimates. I received the 2nd estimate today. FYI, I even provided them a copy of my plans and scope of work I received from my 1st bidder (except for the price).
So, in summary.
1st bid = $18,782
2nd bid = $26,000

I'm expecting a couple more bids, but so far I see no consistency in pricing.
Anyway, it definitely pays to shop around.
-jasper

[Hellrazor]

Sometimes they will throw a really high price in if they don't want the job...

[jasper_60103]

Hey, well finally some good news. I had spoken with another contractor today and he produced a plan better than what I had, including removeable screen panels w/integrated railing. Also, it's fully upgradeable to a 3 season porch. I liked what he presented, and his bid came in 4 grand less than the lowest so far! Heres an example of the final product, except mine will have an open gabel w/screen.
thanks all.
-jasper
<img src="http://jasper60103.250free.com/house/P1010282.jpg"/>