Water Softeners and Air Filtration Systems - salt tank not filling with water

The salt tank is not filling with water at all, so is using no salt. The timer seems to work, except that the fill time seems short. I checked the hose to the salt tank and float valve and both are clear and the valve appears to control flow. It is an Ionics IQ0820B. Tried their website, but haven't heard from them, so don't know a local dealer.

Ionics doesn't have a very friendly website, huh? I don't know anything about this system, but I'd suggest you dig out your manual and reread it. There's probably a troubleshooting section in it.

You get roughly 3 lbs of salt per gal of water and in most brine tank one gal equals one inch of water. So the volume of water added is a function of the salt dose. And some softeners add the water for brine makeup at the begining (prefill) of this regeneration as opposed to at the end of this regeneration (posfill), so unless you look for the volume of water on the night the unit regenerates, you'll never see the true level. But prefill is not common.

Are you sure you have salt down into the water and it isn't bridged?

Ionics usually uses Fleck control valves like the 25x0, if you don't have a manual or if you don't know what control you have, you can look at pictures of controls and get a manual from;
www.fleckcontrols.com

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

Ok, I'll bite... Other than a faster recharge cycle, what are the effective advantages/disadvantages of prefill/postfill? IIRC Waterboss postfills, so it's got the brine ready to go and can regenerate faster, where the Big Box Ecodyne units prefill a variable amount and then sit there for an hour and a half or so while the salt stews in it's own juices (at least it does continue to supply soft water during this stage). My old Culligan unit (I think a System 19) postfilled.

Unfortunately, we were young gullible new homebuyers and didn't get a manual with the installation. Is bridging a crusted surface of salt that is blocking the suction tube? There is no water in the bottom of the tank, and the float valve is empty. It is an external tank model and about 10-years-old.

Bridging is where the salt forms a crusty layer somewhere midtank while the loose salt underneath it continues to dissolve properly. Eventually you use up all the salt underneath the bridge, but when you look in your tank and see the bridge, you think you have plenty of salt, not realizing there's air underneath it.

To check for a bridge, *gently* poke into the top of the salt with a broomstick in several places. If there's a bridge, it will either collapse, or the broomstick will punch a hole in it. Once you collapse the bridge into the water, it should dissolve normally. Bridging itself wouldn't cause NO water in the brine tank.

Did you check Gary's link to see if it uses a Fleck valve?

The regeneration time with either pre or post refill of brine water is the same. Any softener that uses prefill will provide softened water during the time the water is allowed to dissolve salt. Prefill is the only way variable brining can be used; or it's the easiest way if not the "only" way. A few control valves that have prefill are the Clack WS-1, Fleck 7000 and 6700 along with the Autotrol Avantapure (269/463i control)

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

I guess my terminology was off. When I said "regenerate faster" I meant the entire time-period from when the unit goes from service mode, through all the stages, and returns to service mode.

But you've answered my question about prefill (variable brining).

Thanks.

Actually Iwas wrong saying they are both the same, the prefill shortens the regeneration time by the time/minutes spent refilling as the last cycle of the regeneration; postfill. The prefill doesn't cause hard water to the house during the time is is being done as post filling does. Not all controls that offer prefill have variable brining. All controls with either have soft water brining though; they use soft water for the brine make up which gives better salt and regeneration efficiency.

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

I did check the Fleck Valve site and downloaded the 1500 & 2500 Control Valve Time Clock Service Manual pdf. The brass valve body is actually forged with IONICS spelled on it and instructions in the timer box say it is a model 3210 with General Ionics on the exterior. There is also a tag on the brine valve that says .25 gpm/.75 lbs salt/min. It also appears to be a postfill. I don't think that I have bridging as the wife emptied all of the salt out except for a little at the bottom while I was overseas. Should I try prefilling it with water, then salt to see if it will regain its "prime"? Thanks!

The name on the valve is called private labeling, it's a Fleck 2500 and there may be a part or two that is not 'standard' to a Fleck 2500.

Check for a blocked injector, injector throat or screen and kinked/blocked drain line. That assumes the motor that drives the cam that pushes the brine valve in is operating and the cam actually does push the stem of the brine valve in.

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

Will do on the valve. I will check Fleck just to make sure I have something with an exploided view with nomenclature on it.
Thanks

I think that I might have found out that it is the float valve, which would also explain the "short" tank fill time. I had to press the float lever down harder than the float weight to get the valve to allow water through. I had taken it off before and thought that I had made sure that it was opening and closing properly.

So now, I have water in the salt tank, but trying to figure out how the float valve allows the vacuum to "suck" the brine into the process tank, when it got closed by the water level? Is the timer not supposed to fill the water until the float valve closes?

I still need to get the valve to work properly by opening with just the weight of the float and shutting off as well when the float shuts it off. Also, how do you set the height of the water? There are numbers on the down tube from the float valve.
Thanks

If you have a 25x0/5600 etc. then it has a brine valve on the head, the float in the brine tank does not control the brine suction or filliing. It is to prevent the overflow of brine from the tank if the water level rises too high. That is if you have a 23x0 valve that the float hangs on. If the float is up and sticks in the up position, then water can not enter the brine tank and the valve should be replaced but... the real problem is the water level in the brine tank. It isn't being used but it is being refilled until the float raises and shut off the water; as designed. The causes are a blocked drain line, injector etc.. And the softener will be regenerated without salt, that's the same as running it out of salt.

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

I am trying to clean and repair/replace the float valve. The brine valve allows water into the tank once I cleared the float valve, so wouldn't that say that the brine valve and the injector are clear? Do you know if Sears/OSH/Home Depot would carry the float valve? Have a call into Ionics Residential dealer.

Was able to open and clean the float valve. Found an o-ring, which is the valve seat stuck in the valve. Reseated it and now that valve seems to work fine. Going to let it run and see what happens. There are numbers on the suction tube to the valve with a float check at the bottom. I think mine was set at "6", based on salt buildup. Do you know how to check if that is the setting?
Thanks

Your control has a brine valve on the left side rear and it only allows water through when the stem is pushed in by the cam lobe on the motor shaft that drives the piston. If you have water running to the brine tank when the lobe is off the stem, the brine valve needs to be replaced. The float usually does not control the brine water height for the salt dose but... I don't understand the 6 you mention. The timer pin wheel sets the number of minutes of fill time adn the BLFC (brine line flow control) sets the gpm going into the tank; usually .5 gpm. The pin wheel is usually 2 minutes per pin or hole.

No, Sears etc. won't have parts for anything Fleck etc. but any local dealers that sell Fleck controls will. Take your part into one and have them tell you which type you have. If it's one that has the float hanging on a valve lever arm, it is a 2300 brass, or 2310 black plastic safety float controlled system, and it does not control the salt dose.

Gary
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Doug Aleshire, Super Moderator 2

I have an 18" x 31" brine tank, with the salt platform about 8" from the bottom. The brine suction tube has a float check and a "U"-tube. I am trying to adjust the float valve to suction tube height. The 6 was a number on the suction tube and as you move from the top towards the "U"-tube the numbers get larger upto about 24. My wife said that it was actually at about 9 when she pulled it out before. This might be grains per gallon which is what the installer had written down in the control valve box about our water with 4 person household.

I have an 18" x 31" brine tank, with the salt platform about 8" from the bottom. The brine suction tube has a float check and a "U"-tube. I am trying to adjust the float valve to suction tube height. The 6 was a number on the suction tube and as you move from the top towards the "U"-tube the numbers get larger upto about 24. My wife said that it was actually at about 9 when she pulled it out before. This might be grains per gallon which is what the installer had written down in the control valve box about our water with 4 person household.

The system is working okay and using salt again, but I don't have any information on where the water level should be compared to the salt tray.