Humidifiers and Dehumidifiers - Need some help with Full House Humidifier (HoneyWell HE260A)

Hi,

I am new to humidifiers (and to this wonderful forum), and after giving up on smaller standalone units, I purchased a HoneyWell HE260A model, with the corresponding installation kit.

I have gone through all the installation instructions, as well as instructional video :coffee: but I still have a few questions which I hope the more experienced folks can help me with.

1) The video shows a nice black plug-in type transformer, like most transformers. The unit came with a raw transformer, without a black box or connector spades - everything is exposed! I returned the unit for a new one, same thing. OK, so clearly this is what it is supposed to be.
How and where do I mount this? I'd hate to have this thing exposed in my basement! Also, no clue which side is the 120V and which is the 24 V. :confused:

2) Some people mention not needing to install the included sail switch. I have a highboy type furnace, also used as the A/C system in summer. Do I need to install the sail switch?

3) The manual mentions that the humidstat can be mounted against the duct, *or* in the wall of the living area. Well, ideally I would like to have this mounted next to my thermostat in the wall of my dining area. There are no instructions on how to do it that way. In fact, I am looking at the install instructions for duct install, and it requires one to open the hole in the tin, and install it right against the duct, leaving the back of the control exposed to the airflow. I see no 'sensors' on the back of the humidtstat, furthermore, I don't understant how a similar install can be done in the dining room (no way to 'expose' it to the airflow). :(

4) Anyone installed these tap-in water valves? Does it just puncture the copper? Should I expect problems leaks with this method?

Sorry for all the questions, any help is help at this point!

G

I just completed installing this unit on my furnace this past weekend.

1) I'm not sure what the transformer is for....maybe for a commercial installation and not a residential one? I didn't install it and my humidifier works fine.

2) I installed the sail switch. (100% of the people can't be right all the time and when in doubt refer to the manufacturer's instructions.)

3) Mounting the humidistat on the wall in your living area would be ideal. This would involve a little more work on your part as you'll have to drill through the floor up into the wall (assuming your furnace is in a basement). You'd then need to cut a little hole in the wall where you want to mount the humidistat. Next, run electrical wire from the sail switch/transformer up through the floor and through the wall to the hole that you cut. Connect the wiring and mount the humidistat.

Don't worry about sensors on the humidistat or airflow to the humidistat. The type of humidistat provided is more of a manual one than anything else. You will need to adjust it according to the outside temperature. (Hence, the littel guide on the front of it.) Because you may be adjusting every few days, mounting the unit in you living area just makes it easier to remember and easier to do.

4) It just punctures the copper.


Good Luck!

Thanks Kreage1.

So, you did not install the transformer. How is your humidifier activating then?! It runs on 24V ac, you would need the transformer to power it! :confused:

Regarding the humidstat, any idea why the duct install requires a hole to be opened on the duct? Are there any sensors on the back? I just don't get it!

kreage1,

Where are you getting your 24volts from to run your system???

G.

There should be some type of lable saying low voltage side, or 110v side of the transformer.

There is a sensor on the back side of the humid stat. So when you put it on the duct work, cutting the hole in the duct allows the sensor senes the air in the duct work.. Make sure you use the foam that comes with it.

On the wall mount, there is a gap between the wall and the stat itself to sens the room humidity.

Yes, you do need to use the sail switch.. That way it will only run when the furnace fan is running.

Is this the model humid stat? (http://lib1.store.vip.sc5.yahoo.com/lib/allergybegone/honeywell-h8908-installation.pdf#search='h8908b')

it shows how to do the wall install.. Just need two wires brought up the wall.

I have not run into any trouble with the saddle valve. it will make a hole for you.. Just as long you got the screws tight, it will be fine.

Thanks Jay for taking the time to reply to my newbish questions!

I looked at the transformer again, I see one side says LOAD, and two screws labelled W and C. The other side has 2 wires, one black the other white.

Humidstat: What's better? install on duct, or wall? If I install on duct, does it go on the same side as the humidifier unit, and above? (assuming I install on the cold air side of the furnace) That is what I understand by the manual, but doesn't make sense to me... wouldn't I want the humidstat to measure the already 'humidified' air? (i.e. measring somewhere AFTER it has been humidified? e.g. right above the bypass on the hot duct.

Sail switch: is there an alternative? It sound to me, that the sail switch is there only to ensure that the humidifier is active while the heater is on. I would think one can achieve the same by drawing power directly from the furnace blower? And avoid the sail switch complication altogther! :)

Yes, that is the exact humidstat model I have.

The load side (w & C) is your low voltage side, and the two black and white wire is your 120v side.

I'd prefer to put the humidstat on the return duct. That way you're getting a reading for the whole house than just the livingroom or hallway if wall mounted. But if you think you will "forget" about on the duct where you may need to make adj to the outdoors temp, then put it on the wall.

Mount the humidstat upstream from the by-pass unit. That way it's taking a reading before humidty is added.

I would use a sail switch or A50 relay. Unless your system is newer and has wire ready for Humidifier or EAC on it.

If you just wire it off the blower, and you run the fan "ON", then the humidifire will not get power.

Jay:

I actually was going to wire it the other way around -- because the two wires are very very thin, and I figured it had to be for the low voltage. But of course it does make sense that the side labeled LOAD is the one where the humidifier would be connected (the 24 V side)

Is it safe to leave these transformers exposed against the wall of my basement? I don't want anyone getting electrocuted. :(

Humidstat: I think I will add it on the duct. I agree, I would get much better humidity readings.

Relay/Sail switch: I cannot find anything on my furnaced labeled as humidifier. But it is a 3 year old furnace, from TRANE. I would imagine it had to be humidifier ready :( What is EAC?


The load side (w & C) is your low voltage side, and the two black and white wire is your 120v side.

I'd prefer to put the humidstat on the return duct. That way you're getting a reading for the whole house than just the livingroom or hallway if wall mounted. But if you think you will "forget" about on the duct where you may need to make adj to the outdoors temp, then put it on the wall.

Mount the humidstat upstream from the by-pass unit. That way it's taking a reading before humidty is added.

I would use a sail switch or A50 relay. Unless your system is newer and has wire ready for Humidifier or EAC on it.

If you just wire it off the blower, and you run the fan "ON", then the humidifire will not get power.

What is the full model # Trane do you have?

Low voltage 24 volts won't hurt anyone.. Just the 110v does.

This what you have for transfromer? (http://electronicaircleaners.com/database/images/honeywell_32001652-001.jpg)

The black and white wire on the left is the 110v hook up.

Should be hooked up like this. (http://electronicaircleaners.com/database/images/emerson_000-0814-008_photo.jpg)

EAC stands for Electronic Air Cleaner. If you have that as well, you can tie up to that.

Model TUE100A948K3 (Upflow TRANE)

Voltage: I agree, 24V won't hurt you, but there are two connectors feeding the 120 V on one oend of the transformer. And those are exposed. Hence, someone could touch that end of the transformer and get a good shock. no? I might just buy a small box and cover it.

Transformer: looks just like the one in the pic. Although mine clearly has Honeywell engraved, and reads 0333 instead of 0338. Otherwise identical all around. The pic is very clear, wires go to junction box / 120 V.

I have done 70% of the installation. Pending are the sail switch (still debating whether I need that), the humidstat control, and the wiring. Allmost done!

I need to make a decision regarding the sail switch. Would you happen to know if with my TRANE model I have a humidifier hookup, or EAC ? SOunds like those would be better alternatives to the sail switch.

Thanks a ton!

What is the full model # Trane do you have?

Low voltage 24 volts won't hurt anyone.. Just the 110v does.

This what you have for transfromer? (http://electronicaircleaners.com/database/images/honeywell_32001652-001.jpg)

The black and white wire on the left is the 110v hook up.

Should be hooked up like this. (http://electronicaircleaners.com/database/images/emerson_000-0814-008_photo.jpg)

EAC stands for Electronic Air Cleaner. If you have that as well, you can tie up to that.

Ok, you have the XB80 furnace (Builder's grade).

There is no tap for you to tie into this since it's a builder's grade..

So you will have to use the sail switch.

You can get power from the furnace.. In the blower area, there is a power strip marked LH and LN.

Black wire goes to LH, and white wire goes to LN.

Thanks Jay , for taking the time to look this up and reply. :)

OK, so I would rather tap into the furnace, than use the darn transformer! :o

I looked closely, and could not find anything labeled LH/LN in there. Am I looking in the right place?

I went ahead and took a picture. Here's what I see when I take the cover off:
(sorry, don't know how to embed images in this forum, follow link below)
Image link: PICTURE (CLICK ME) (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/furnace.jpg)

Thanks!

Glad to help you out..

The hook up will be on the control board down below in the main blower area.

However, on the left hand side where your power comes in, you may tap into that.. If you have a switch on the side on a juction box. put the transformer there.

So, when you say 'below in the main blower area'... is this the same area I have exposed in the pic? Or the cover below that one?

Not sure if I got this right... I understand I now have 2 options to hook up to the unit itself:
1) Find LH/LN hookups, and tap into that WITHOUT transformer (I'm assuming those are 24V hookups?) ...or...
2) Tap into switch junction box (yes, I do have one) using the transformer.

I guess I need clarity on option (1) above, since it is not clear to me whether that would be a 24V hookup of a 120V.

Thanks again.

Glad to help you out..

The hook up will be on the control board down below in the main blower area.

However, on the left hand side where your power comes in, you may tap into that.. If you have a switch on the side on a juction box. put the transformer there.

It's the cover belowe the picture that you sent. That's your main blower for the furnace, and there is a control board where all the wires goes to.

the LH/LN is 120. NOT 24

Jay:

Thank you. I decided to tap into the wires on the left hand side, at the power switch, where the wires come in.
I left the transformer INSIDE the main blow area. Does this pose a risk at all?

BTW, I measured the load side of the transformer, and I'm getting a 26.9 V reading. I was expecting something closer to 24 VAC.

Almost done now!!!

It's the cover belowe the picture that you sent. That's your main blower for the furnace, and there is a control board where all the wires goes to.

the LH/LN is 120. NOT 24

26 volts is fine.. Give and take 2 volts here and there.

You can leave down in the blower area, just as long it will not short out to the housing, and wire won't get sucked up into the blower itself.

Jay,

I'm finished with the installation. All is working as expected -- thanks to your help!

I hope others find this thread as useful as I did :)

Good night!

Glad to see you got it up and going.. Don't mind if you take a picture of the results? Then we can see if it's all done well!

RE: ...Don't mind if you take a picture of the results...

Is there a way to post pictures on this forum? I've never seen one.

Thanks

You used to be able to do it. but now this form no longer allows it. I don't want to get into details since it upsets me.. I know alot of member who was like me left cuz the board owner didn't want pic and links on here.. I did leave here for a few months. but I came back. I wish they did allow posting cuz a picture is worth a thousand word!

Only way you can put pic here is have posted another server, and link us to it.

I will post some pictures soon. I agree, a pic is worth 1000 words. I wish I had taken pics along the process to create a pictorial guide :(

As promised.
complete setup (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/complete.jpg)
bypass duct (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/bypass.jpg)
water drain (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/drain.jpg)
humidifier (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/humidifier.jpg)
sail switch and humidstat (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/sailswitch_and_humidstat.jpg)
transformer hookup (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/transformer_hookup.jpg)
water tap (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/water_tap.jpg)
I screwed up here! (http://www.vesperworks.com/furnace/screw_up.jpg) <--problem here was that I drilled too low, and there are A/C components there. Fortunately I didn't hit anything, and realized on time. Phew. A watchout for everyone else!

Note: why on earth can't one edit posts in this forum?! :wall:

Looks good for a guy who did this for the first time other than the Opps!

I would make on suggestion, I would replace the water line with copper. I've just seen one too many leaks from these lines.

I take the other one goes to your ice maker?

Looks good for a guy who did this for the first time other than the Opps!

I would make on suggestion, I would replace the water line with copper. I've just seen one too many leaks from these lines.

I take the other one goes to your ice maker?


THanks. I considered using PVC (not copper) instead of the plastic tubing, but I have zero experience with plumbing -- and I have had no problems with the other line which runs to the ice maker. (lucky so far?)

I'll keep my eyes open for leaks. If I decide to re-pipe, would I be able to remove the old 'tap', and somehow seal it?

I don't care for CPVC as well.. You can use 1/4" soft copper, the fittings you have on there now to the valves on both units are compression..

So when you do go copper. Just make sure you get 1/4" compression sleve, and still can use the same nut.

If you go away on a trip for awhile, I would strongly suggest turning the water off. Like I said, I've seen one too many leaks on these lines over time, and it's not fun when you come home to have water all over your kitchen floor.

Jay -

I hope you are still an administrator on here. I just found this thread and found it extremely helpful as I was having exactly the same issue with the humidifier installation as far as the transformer.

The copper tubing was already complete, including a better valve with a 90 degree shut-off.

I thought I was getting the wiring right, but no power is coming through right now. Then I thought I got it with your helpful pictures, but actually the other guy's picture confused me just a little the way his wiring went.

So tell me if where I need to go with this:

Black wire from the humidifier to the 24v side of the transformer (right?), which is NOT the wire side (right?), and another black wire leaving the 24v side of the transformer (does it matter which terminal is which there?) to go to the humidistat. Then from the humidistat down to the sail switch, and back up to the other black wire at the humidifier. Meanwhile, on the black and white wires of the transformer, that's where we get our power (right?). I connect that to the panel in the furnace. My old humidifier did that too. I even know which terminals it was. One said "COM" (I assume "common"?) and the other I think said HUM (that one is pretty obvious). Which of those gets the black and which gets the white wire? And is there anything else in this I am incorrect about in the wiring?