Flooring Tile - removing bathroom floor tile

I am in the process of removing the bathroom floor tile but find it is more difficult than I thought. The tile I am removing are 4x4 and when I chisel them up the mortar is coming out as well. Whatever they are set with is very strong. I thought I could remove the tile but keep the old thinset and clean up the surface to retile over it. This appears not to be the case. Some of the areas which the tile has been removed is bare down to a wire mesh. I fear that the cement board(?) is adhered with the same tough thinset to the plywood and that I may damage the plywood flooring. Any suggestions of what's going on here and what I should do. The area consists of two 25 sq. ft. bathrooms - toilet and tub area and vanity area. I appreciate any help.
Kris

What you are digging into is a can of worms!

You have just hit fools gold! That is a mud bed with lathe you digging into. Once disturbed in the manner you have, it must all be taken out and start over.

There is no cement board under there, just good old asphalt felt paper.


This is how it was done, before cement panels and uncoupling membranes.

I have only taken up about 6 tiles and only in one row which is on the edge where the vanity would start (there was no tile under the vanity). Would it be possible to continue removing just that one row, take up the mud, wire and asphalt paper and put a piece of CBU and somehow raise the area to meet the existing tile? Then, what are your thoughts about retiling over tile. There isn't a height issue here and the only area I have been working in is under the vanity and the first row out.
Thanks
Kris

You sound like me when I dug into a bathroom floor for the first time. In the end, I just had to roll up my sleaves and get dirty. Take up the vanities and commode, get a small sledge and go to town. You'll be happier in the end with a newly installed floor, not a patched job. Since then, I have done several baths. I have yet to find an easy one. If you are uncertain about installing the new floor, get a handyman to do that. No use paying him to do the grunt work however.

I was just going to post a new topic when I saw this. I'm also remodeling a bathroom and found about a 1/4" of mortar on wire mesh under the tile. This is directly on top of 3/4 sub floor. There's nothing else under it - just 3/4 then the mortar. Was this standard practice, or did they take a shortcut? I've read on the forum that the floor should be thicker. It seems to have held up fine - nice rose colored tiles from the 80's, nothing loose, no cracks in the grout.

Given that this is what I found, can I just put 1/4" backer board over the subfloor for the new tiles? If I go thicker, then the floor will be higher. Also, can hardi board be used for floors or only concrete board recommended?

thx, Don

I've got the same question. I finally just did the dirty work and removed the old tiles, along with the lath and mud, exposing the plywood. I need to recheck but I think it's 3/4 inch. Is this thick enough plywood and then do I put down the tar paper, then I was going to use Durock, thinset then tile? Also, I haven't removed the tile under the toilet. The other tile I had to take a sledge hammer (chisel just wasn't getting it up). I don't think I should pound the tiles near the toilet flange or the floor heating. Any suggestions?
Kris

I would use an uncoupling membrane like Schluter: DITRA www.schluter.com

It is far superior to CBU panels, and is perfect for what your trying to do.

Don, Perry's advice is sound. To answer you question as an FYI, Hardibacker is a cement board and can be used on the floor.

Kris, if you have access to a pointy edge chisel, that and a hammer will break up what is left of your tile floor. If you ever have to do it again in your next life go to a rental center and for under $50 you can get a demolition hammer that will break up the floor in short order.

You could rent the chipping hammer and get pretty close to the fixtures. You still have the tile on those areas and would need to build up the floor high enough to get you new tile above that hight and us a membrane. I fyou get those tiles and the mortar out of there, you will be ok with cement board. Just mortar underneath, do not use tarpaper or anything else like that under your cement board.

Tile and mud removed (hard work but never afraid of doing the labor), down to the 3/4" plywood. I noticed some water damage in areas next to the tub and in the vanity room behind the tub. The floor is still sturdy, not warped but some of the ply is chipped out from the water damage. I don't want to remove the plywood floor. How can I fix this, or do I need to, before tiling? Should I do a self-level in this area or lay another sheet of plywood on top or just put CBU on top of the old plywood?

Do you have room to put a 1/2" sheet of plywood down and cap it with 1/4" cement board, then the tile. You probably do because of the thickness of the old floor that you took out.
If the wet plywood is stable let it dry, spray it with mildew killer. If it is crumbled or delaminated it should be cut out and replaced, but just the bad areas.

I may have room for the 1/2 inch ply but most of the floor is just water stained and mainly near the tub area. We had a drip problem with the tub when we bought the house last year but never saw or thought about any water damage resulting from the drip. Just thought we were wasting water and money. It was very clear a year laterl when the bottom of the door frame between the two bath areas was rotting out. Stuck my finger right through the jamb all the way up to my knuckle. We repaired the leak and see more damage to the plywood under the tile. Thy plywood is delaminating a little in that area. I will remove the floor and replace in that area. Since I also removed the sliding door from the tub and don't plan on replacing it, should I put some other moisture barrier down to prevent future water damage from kids splashing water out of the tub? What will I need to do to prep the floor for tiling? (Replace/fix plywood, thinset cement board to ply, thinset and tile) Would a moisture barrier work in somewhere? What type of cement board is best for a bath that could get a lot of water spillage to the floor? Durock, hardiback, wonderboard, Ditra? Thanks for the help
Kris

I have a new question regarding the shower pan in a small bath. There is nothing structurally wrong with the shower pan. It is a cream/white, rectangular pan that has been abused. The previous owners used the this shower as a utility sink to clean up pain, etc. There are paint splats of gray in the pan. THe shower is fully enclosed tile (walls and ceiling). Instead of ripping up the pan, which means ripping the first two rows of tile, could I somehow restore the shower pan. My husband is in the military so we will be moving within the next year. This bathroom is very outdated! Lots of remodelling going on in the house now (upstairs bath and kitchen) so I don't want to make this another big project. For kicks, I got an estimate to remodel this SMALL bathroom (small sink, toilet and shower in a 5x7 room) and it was $8,000. Had to laugh at that one since the only major work was the shower. Didn't want to have to tackle it but at that cost I have no other option. Appreciate your advice on the shower pan.
Kris