Entertainment Center: TVs, Stereos, VCRs and DVDs - Home Theater Assistance

I'm finishing up an addition and I'm considering building a speaker system into the walls. I'd appreciate any advise that some of you may have. I'm a great builder but not real savvy on audio set-up. the room isn't large, 20 X 16, but it does have some options for speaker placement.
- Does having the speakers above ear level effect quality all that much? The cieling is cathedral so the natural angle of the speaker face in cieling would be directed toward listening area.
- What cable should I run for the speakers? My research has already yielded the fact that I need to take the 16 gauge back to Lowe's and get 18 minimum. I've read that the new 6.1 standard uses coaxial cable for the sub-woofer; is that required for the other speakers also?
- Anybody have any experience with built-in the wall speakers? Suppliers for these components? Tips, pointers, do's/dont's?
- Ultimately, can one obtain good sound quality from in wall systems or am I better living exposed speakers? I really like the idea of a clean, seamless install of in wall system but not if the effort yields 50% of the quality.
Thanks,

The ceiling is angled? How many sides and how high?
How high up would the speakers be?
What is the flooring?
Also any windows, doors etc.?
What will mainly be played through the speakers? Movies? Jazz CDs?

The 16ga. wire is fine. Why go smaller with 18? Standard stranded lamp cord is ideal.

Normally, speakers for 5.1 or 6.1 work best at or near ear level.

"coaxial cable for the sub-woofer;" not absolutely necessary, a standard quality video cable(rca) will be fine, most of them are RG59 anyway!!

I've got mid-range priced in-wall speakers for my fronts, and they work good in a 20x20 ft room. It's the sub woofer that makes the system.

Go to a dedicated audie-video store to check for in-wall speakers.

my .02,
fred

Cieling is 8ft at wall, 11 ft at center. Speakers would be 9.5 ft or so off the floor. Lot's of windows, gable end is a window wall. Floor is ceramic tile. System would be split use between home theater/movies and music. You're correct, I meant to say that the 16ga needed to be replaced by thicker ga according to just about everything I've read. But, thats why I'm geting some other opinions.
Thnaks for the help

You'll have to be careful
The height and angle of the speakers won't compliment the acoustics of that room
You've got a small echo chamber there
Something lower and straighter may be better
In-walls may be a good choice - less unwanted frequencies bouncing around
You may need to try a few different places for the sub-woofer to cut some boominess but still get bottom end

With the ceiling angles, tile, and glass in there you may want to put aside some of the budget for room acoustics
Strategic placement of some sound absorbing panels may be needed

Well gandh520 it sounds like your room is similar to mine. Good luck. It is not an easy space to tame. What level of sound quality do you want and what is your approximate budget?

I imagine your room will have some "hot" frequencies that will want to sing or resonate when you turn up the volume and your subwoofer placement may require some flexibility. I would start thinking of drapes, big puffy furniture, and a heavy oriental rug for the floor.

Good info so far. We planned on exactly that, leather sofa and chairs, oriental rugs. Room theme will be British-West Indies. I have space above book shelves on either side of the window wall that could be used effectively for speakers. That would place them at 8ft above floor. In-wall units for the other side will work also. Subwoofer has lot's of options for placement; under the window seat may work well(?). Center speaker can also be in-wall. More questions;
- If I plan to use 6.1 receiver, what wire is best and type of connectors?
- I have seen some 'boxes' available that you put in the wall to house the in-wall speaker unit. Are these neccessary, additive to sound quality, etc.?
- Any comments on rotating tweeters that I've read about for in-wall systems?
Thanks for the advise

Yes, do upgrade to thicker cable. So what if you spend an extra $50 or so. The rear speakers are at the end of a very long run. You will lose some sound quality with the thinner wire. Enough to notice the difference? Depends on your ear and what you play and the quality of the speakers. But, again, whats an extra $50 on a $2500 - $3000 system?

Speakers in the cathedral ceiling should be ok. I'd place them such that the are pointed to the "sweet spot" in the listening area.
The tile floor will be a problem. Area rugs and lots of fabric in the furniture and wall decorations will help.
Don't run the sub wire in the wall without first trying the sub in its location. The sub should be musical, not boomy. I use a sub-woofer cable and a good powered sub.
I've heard the polk in-walls and they sound pretty good. They are comparable (even better?) than cube speakers. But they are not near the quality of good book shelf speakers. Floor standing speakers are even better (ok, i'm old fashioned!). In-wall are good for the rears unless you are into dvd-a or sacd. My first choice (and what I did) would be floor standing speakers for the fronts.

OK - I'm at the point where I have to decide, indulation then drywall going up next week. Let me explain more of the perameters.
1) Not being an audio expert, I percive that my ear won't be able to really tell the difference in sound quality between ear level or cieling/wall mount.
2) I am more concerned with not having speakers standing around on the floor looking like furniture, that's why I am strongly leaning towards cieling/in-wall speakers. The form vs. function criteria for my decision on this leans more towards form; in other words, I want a clean lookin install and efficient use of space. I don't want the form aspect to come at the expense of drastic loss of function, or quality of sound.
3) I am leaning towards installing L/C/R front and L/R rear in the cieling with a powered subwoofer under a window seat along one of the walls.
4) The cieling is a cathedral cieling, pitched 3/12 along the 16 foot wall. This means the L/C/R cieling mounted speakers would be mounted on one 'side' of the cieling, the L/R rear would be mounted on the other 'side' of the cieling, both sides would direct sound downward, toward the center of the room where the main seating would take place.
5) If this arrangement will give me good effect for home theater and music listening I will go with it.
I'm not looking for super high end audio quality with this design and install, something that hits the 70-80% mark for my ears would be good. (Keeping in mind that my ears have lost some of their own quality after 20+ years of helicopters, aircraft, guns and other asundry of intrusive and damaging noise.)
Can anyone advise me that this is absolutely the wrong way to go because of some fundamental flaw, or can I expect to hit the magical 70-80%, satisfied with the effects quality with this design?
Thanks,

1) my ear won't be able to really tell the difference in sound quality between ear level or cieling/wall mount.

I would say you will be happier with the asthetic benefits of inwalls than the acoustic benefits of regular speakers.

2)I am strongly leaning towards cieling/in-wall speakers.

In ceilings are ok for the rears, but try to use inwalls for the fronts.

3) L/C/R front and L/R rear in the cieling

I would at least wire for 7.1 (4 rears, 2 in the back and 1 on each side. Have the builder attach the wires to the studs, rock over them. Be sure to measure so you can find them again later.

3.1)with a powered subwoofer under a window seat along one of the walls.

A sub will do much better outside of a container. Consider allowing for it to be out in space as a compromise towards acoustics.

4) The cieling is a cathedral cieling, pitched 3/12 along the 16 foot wall. This means the L/C/R cieling mounted speakers would be mounted on one 'side' of the cieling, the L/R rear would be mounted on the other 'side' of the cieling, both sides would direct sound downward, toward the center of the room where the main seating would take place.

I dislike this setup for the fronts. Is there no way to put them on the vertical wall? If not, having them on the angled ceiling is better than none at all. Putting the 3 fronts on a vertical wall would be the one thing I would -defanitly- change about your plan. If at all possible have them on the same horizontal plane. This setup is good for the rears.

5) Can anyone advise me that this is absolutely the wrong way to go because of some fundamental flaw, or can I expect to hit the magical 70-80%, satisfied with the effects quality with this design?

For HT the fronts on the ceiling may push you towards 50% sarisfied vs having them on a vertical wall. I would change that if at all possible. Consider using speakers like the spheres from Gallo - http://www.anthonygallo.co.uk/ - they are only a few inches in diameter, and can be tastefully hidden on say a bookshelf ;)

I would run coax in the wall for your sub. Ideally run it to 2-3 drops in case you want to reposition the sub.

Also, 16ga wire is cheap. Why don't you run some in the walls for both an in ceiling arraingement and for a more typical arraingement. Then you can decide later where you want to put your speakers, or will have more flexibility in the even you change your mind. Again, leave it behind the rock and know how to find it later. I suggest taking alot of pictures when you're in the framing stage.

I second most everything Stereoguy has said. To make your surround system sound close to beleivable you need the sound to be coming from your tv/screen. The front center channel to really really needs to be vertical, facing the listening area and as close to the tv/screen as possible (movie theaters even go so far as to put the speakers behind the screen). I would also work very hard to get my front left & right speakers vertical and facing the viewing area. I would run wire to various locations for the sub. Subs will react very differently depending on where they are placed in the room. One spot may make it resonate or sound boomy but moving it a foot or two may cure the problem.

Since my room is similar, here is what I've got. The main TV wall of the room has a large set of custom cabinets. The front center, L & R are in walls built into the cabinet and face the listening area. My side speakers are in walls mounted 6' above the floor just beside the main listening seats. My two rear speakers are in walls that are mounted in a vertical wall at the end of our vaulted ceiling and they are 10.5' above the floor and 8' behind the main seating and firing forward toward the tv. The sub is in the front right corner of the room. I originally had it in the corner 4" off each wall and it really boomed. I moved it 2' forward (so now it is 2' from TV wall and 4" from the side wall) and the bass improved dramatically.