never stopping pump problem

[ctutuncu]

Hi there,

My question is about a never stopping water pump. What we have in our house are a hydropneumatic water tank (says Mark IV on it) and a pressure switch (says Pumptrol D Square D Company Class 9013 Ser B on 20 off 40).

Our pump never stops working so I end up having to turn the power off whenever I see the pressure reaching 50. I tried to adjust the switch after reading what was previously posted on the Forum. I emptied all the water in the tank, pumped air from the valve on top of the vertical tank using a bicycle pump. I made sure to pump in 28PSI as instructed on the water tank. Then turned the power on. When the pressure reached 50, I turned the power off and started adjusting the large spring nut CCW hoping that the contacts on the switch would get released. Although I go all the way to release the spring coil completely the contacts do not snap back. When I push the plates apart using a plyer the contacts get released, so it makes me wonder whether there is not enough pressure on the diaphragm to push the plate against the spring.

My questions are:
1) Does all that mean that the pressure switch is gone bad?
2) Given that the Tank instructs to pump 28PSI (which should be 2 less than the cutting point of 30PSI) and given that the switch is marked 20-40, am I better of buying a 30-50 switch if I need to buy a new one? Or is it OK to push the 20-40 switch to work 30-50?

Thanking all in advance.

jon

[nomind]

Hi Jon,
congratulations, so far you're doing everything right ! - the cause is just a little more puzzling than usual. First off- are you talking about a jetpump (ie a motor/pump combo near the tank ? ) If you are, then there are a few possible causes.
1- the small tube from the casing to P/S is plugged (very common ). remove the tube from the P/S and pointing it into a bucket or such, briefly turn power on. If a jet of water comes out we're okay there. - If it doesn't, then work your way forward to the fitting that joins the casing. Remove and check for clear fittng and tube. If all this is clear then you need a new P/S. They cost about 20-24 and are easy to fit.
2. If the P/S is mounted on the tank tee, then you most likely have a sub. pump. In this case, after draining pressure, remove P/S AND the nipple it is mounted on . Check nipple for clearance. if clear, get a new P/S. ( if it's on a tank tee, I ALWAYS change the mounting nipple AND gauge. for the extra $5 it's worth it !}
Most 20 /40 P/s's can be adjusted up to 30/50, but if a 30/50 is available that's better. If it's the sub. pump application, you want a '9013 FSG 2J21' , if it's a jet pump, I can't remember the number, the last 2or 3 digits are different as this switch has a 1/8 hose barb instead of internal thread.
Good luck with it - You're doing great so far. :cool:

[joed]

Along the same lines as plugged pipe is aa plugged pressure switch. Where the switch connects to pipe, the pressure switch has a very tiny hole inside. It is smaller than a pin. This hole can get plugged easily with rust etc. Poking it with very pin or needle will often clear it.

[ctutuncu]

Dear nomind and joed:

Thanks for your replies.. they were very timely.. wife is about to lose patience with me and this problem..

to answer nomind's question, I believe what I got is a jetpump (says Mercury Jet Serial D65 Model ICC455 on it)..

between the time I posted my question and read your replies, I have done the following:
1) I turned both valves from the tank to the pump and to the house off.
2) Then I emptied all the water in the tank once again using the drain bibb at the tee which is at the bottom of the tank.
3) I pumped 28PSI to the tank using an air compressor.
4) I started turning the long spring clockwise until the contacts on the P/S snapped and the pump started.

What I am seeing now is that the pump is running, but the pressure dials show no increase of pressure in the system, and the pump keeps running.

Does this verify your idea that I got some clogging? I thought I'd ask before I went on to disassemble things.

Also, sorry for my ignorance but what is meant by the casing in your reply..

Thanks a ton.

jon

[ctutuncu]

one more thing.. what I forgot to write in my previous message is that I had turned the valves from the tank to the pump and the house back on before I turned the power on...

also the P/S is sitting right above the pump and all I see between the pump and the P/S switch is what seems like a short nut (about 3/4" thick and 7/8"long).. is that the tube that you mentioned earlier?

finally, do I need to drain the tank before I remove the P/S or does that not matter?

thanks again folks..

jon

[ctutuncu]

OK Now I am in deep trouble... The pump works (I can hear/see the motor running), but the pressure is not going up, and we used all the water in the house... so no water although the pump seems to be running.. Could it be air entrapped in the system somewhere, if so what do I do? I called a plummer who said it may be that or I may need to prime the pump (which I don;t know how) and wants to charge $145 without guaranteeing repair..).. please help.. thanks in advance.. jon

[nomind]

Hi ctutuncu,
- based on what you are now reporting, the pump may not be primed or may not be rising to the desired pressure. Q 1- Is there a plug on top of the pump where you may prime it? All jetpumps MUST be primed, the ENTIRE line between pump and foot valve MUST be full of water for the pump to operate correctly. To do this properly, remove and RE-tape the priming plug ,fill the pump till no bubbles return and the water is static at the plug opening. Start the plug into the opening by 2-3 threads. Now start the pump, if pressure rises rapidly, close the plug and you should be OK. Sometimes it is necessary to do this 2-3 times if you're not quick with locking it up. re-prime and RE-TAPE each time ( I know it's a **** ## *** @@@@, but you MUST do it).
-If this doesn't work post back and we'll help find the answer . :cool:

[ctutuncu]

nomind hi:

Thanks for your great advice.. I found the plug on top of the pump.. before I go ahead..

Q1: Do I need to turn off the valkves from the pump to the tank and from the tank to thte house before I start filling water?

Q2: The tank has zero pressure in it now.. Do I need to pump (28PSI) air into the tank before I start the priming?

Q3: Am I better off installing the new P/S I bought before all of the above?

Thanks and thanks again..

jon

[ctutuncu]

here is what happened since I wrote last.. I placed the switch, filled the pump with water, and managed to prime.. the pump kept running longer than what I expected and the pressure gauge did not move beyond 50 so I turned the pump off.. then I started to run the dishwasher to get the pile of dishes cleaned, of course keeping an eye on the water pressure. When I saw the pressure going down I started the pump again, but it does not seem to suck any more water and I am running out of water.. what could have gone wrong? should I have pumped air in the tank before I primed the pump like I asked earlier?

[nomind]

Hi ctu,
- install the new P/S while tank is empty of water and air . If there's a ball valve between pump and tank, close it for now. There will be one on outlet side of tank , close it too. Now pump the tank air up to 28. Prime the pump and start it, if pressure comes up immediately, crack open the valve between pump and tank SLOWLY, to 1/4 open and water should enter the tank. Now tighten up the prime plug , open the valve fully and let the tank fill. As you have a new P/S , it should stop at 50.
post back and let me know :cool:

[ctutuncu]

hi nomind.. I somehow managed to get things working although I had not seen your reply.. what I did was to empty all the water and air in the tank and then shut off both valves (on both sides of the tee).. I placed the new P/S first and then pumped 28PSI to the tank.. after that I filled the pump with water from the plug on the top.. I then placed some teflon tape on the plug and hand turned the plug two-three times.. next I started the pump and when it picked up, I turned on both of the valves and then kept turning the plug down further.. although the pressure reached 50PSI, the pump would not stop, so I pulled the contact back manually and observed the dial gauge to see when the pump kicked in.. it was kicking in at 32PSI so I figured if I adjusted the spring CCW a few turns it would get the pump to start at 30PSI or so.. Next time it stopped at about 48PSI and kicked back in at 28PSI.. I did not want to mess with things any more and left it at that. what I am thinking is that my pump must have some feature that does not allow pressure build-up past 50PSI and that's probably why it was unable to reach 52PSI where it would stop automatically... or maybe my dial gauge is defective and that's why it does not go above 50PSI.. anycase we got water now and all seems to work OK.. I am thanking a lot for your and others guidance.. It was great help.. I hope someone else benefits from all we have written.. cheers.. jon

[nomind]

Hi Ctu, I'm pleased it's turned out all right for you. It may be though that your pump's impeller is a bit worn or warped, that's the common cause for struggling past 48 or 50. Anyway, don't worry and keep your fingers crossed for now. Merry Christmas :cool: