Water Heaters - Not enough Hot Water from the Heater

I have a Whirlpool heater. The model is E1F50RDO45V. I understand the transfer of power between the upper and lower thermostats. I’ve changed the elements. The heater is just over a year old. When I installed it I didn’t realize the 4500 watt elements required a 30 amp breaker…I currently have a 25 amp breaker but it’s never tripped. On a slab foundation. There are no exposed pipes.

Here’s the problem: I turned the power off and turned on the hot water in the house to drain all the existing hot water from the tank. I turned the power back on and the upper element registers 240V and the lower 0V. After the top heats the upper stat transfers power to the lower stat. Now the lower element is 238V and the upper is running about 98V. I’ve reset the thermostat reset button. Also, turned both stats to the lower limits and then reset them both around 130 degrees. All this being said…the hot water supplied in the house is hot for about 5 minutes and then starts to cool.

Questions: 1. I’m sure there is a way to test the resistance on each thermostat, and I’m sure it has to do with adjusting the thermostat control back and forth to its’ upper and lower limits, but I can’t remember what leads I should be testing with my multimeter. Any help there? 2. If that test is successful, could there be something wrong with either of the stats anyway, and can a shop test it more effectively? 3. Which one of the stats would you replace first? 4. Could it be the 25 amp breaker? 5. And last if none of the above I would have to assume it’s the dip tube, agree? Do I have these in the right order? If not, what would you suggest? This thing has got me baffled.
Thanks, Tim
P.S. I've read the info on the FAQ post and how to change the dip tube.

Just had it installed yesterday around noon. Took a shower this morning, and had about 5 minutes of hot water before the "room temperature" water started coming out.

I have the top and bottom heating elements as well, so I checked the bottom one and discovered the thermostat was actually set beyond the lowest setting, "HOT". I'm not sure if this caused the bottom element to simply not activate. According to the manual, the factory default is HOT (120 degrees). I checked my old tank, and it was set at 140 degrees. I turned the thermostat on the new tank up to 140 degrees before I left for work.

I'll find out if that did any good when I get home. I'm certainly hoping I'm not having any problems like voltage going to the elements. I'm pretty sure my old tank didn't even have a top element, but the water was always scalding hot.

If anybody has any other opinions on what could be wrong, I'm all ears!

watkinsFL

I’ve changed the elements. The heater is just over a year old. When I installed it I didn’t realize the 4500 watt elements required a 30 amp breaker…I currently have a 25 amp breaker but it’s never tripped. On a slab foundation. There are no exposed pipes.
1 year old why did you change the elements?? Did you ring out the elements this time are you sure they are both good now?.
25 amp breaker is not right should be 30 amp. But I have found that if it is a long run of wire from the water heater to the electric panel it works . But you shouldnt do it.

ED ;)

chrisbuddha,

This article I wrote that explains others things that you didn't mention but it may or may not be helpful.

WATER HEATER SIZING

At one time or another, we all have encountered the tragic experience of running out of hot water. This might had been while taking a bath or especially a shower. For those taking a shower, it is especially noticeable due to those that really like to take that long hot one.

So, to determine the right size water heater for your home, you need to figure out the peak demand that will be required from your water heater. The table below lists the typical amounts of water for various uses. Look at the activities that will occur simultaneously and choose a water heater that can handle the required load.

ACTIVITY GALLONS PER USE
Shower - 15 Minutes 14-16
(Shower head flow can go from 2.0 gpm to 3.0 gpm)
Bath - Adult 20-30
Bath-Whirlpool (48 gallon capacity) - Adult 25-32
Hand/Face Wash 1 - 4
Shave 1 - 2
Dishwashing (hand) 2 - 4
Dishwashing (automatic) 12-14
Food Preparation 3 - 5
Clothes Washing 10-32

The hot water supplied by a storage type water heater (typically the average home uses this type) will begin dropping in temperature before the total water in the heater is consumed due to the mixing of incoming cold water.

Example:

A family of four, the following activities may occur within 1 hour;

8:00 AM - Adult takes a shower and shaves - 18 gallons used.
8:15 AM - Adult takes a shower - 15 gallons used
8:30 AM - Two children wash face/hands - 3 gallons used
8:40 AM - Breakfast food preparation - 3 gallons used

Total hot water required for one hour: 39 Gallons

To insure full temperature hot water you need to choose a water heater that has a first hour rating of 40 gallons minimum or more. I suggest that a 50 gallon be selected for the above application due to variations of the use within the first one hour. Don’t forget, that in time the recovery rate for these water heaters will decrease over time. In some cases, especially with those that have a larger family & may also have a whirlpool bath, it may be wise to invest in 2 water heaters. As you can see, hot water consumption can be very heavy just in the example used and we didn’t even touch on the washing of clothes or dishwasher use.

Hope this helps!

Thanks for the reply. I don't think that useage is the problem. Its only me in the house, and I only take about 7 minute showers. Further, my old tank was a 40 gallon as well, and delivered all the hot water I ever needed.

It makes sense that my problem lies with the bottom element. Does anyone know if you turn it all the way "down" (in other words, past the HOT setting), effectively turns the element off? That's the way I found it this morning. The manual states the default is HOT, but the thermostat was definitely not on that setting.

To be safe and meet most local code, that water heater should be on 10/2-with-ground wire and a 30 amp breaker.
To test elements, turn OFF the power breaker, remove the two wire leads from the element, and test it with an ohm meter for continuity. No continuity, replace the element.
A common DIY mistake when changing elements is to turn the power back on BEFORE the tank is full of water and all air is out of the tank and solid streams of water are coming out of the hot water faucets. If power is put to the heater before fully filling, that will fry one or both elements.
I don't bother with testing tstats. If one goes out or is failing, I just replace both. It's easy.
Take a good look or make a sketch of the exact number and layout of the tstat screws, and go to the store to get two exactly like them (does not have to be same brand).
With the power OFF of course, change the tstat wires ONE AT A TIME from the old to the new. Can't go wrong like that. Make sure that all screws are very tight.
I set my stats at 140 (no children). Don't set them above 125 with small children to prevent scalding.
I highly doubt that a one-year-old heater has a dip tube problem.
Good Luck!
Mike

Thanks for the response. Ed, I change the elements because my old one I was changing about every 8 months because of crap in the water. Doug, my situation is like Chrisbuddha's. Had a 40 gal before and when I upgraded I didn't catch the required upgrade (from 25 to 30) at the breaker until yesterday. I will change that. The home is only 5 years old so I know it meet all codes. Mike, Ok you guys correct me if I'm wrong.
I'm going to upgrade the breaker to 30amps, check the restistance on the elements to make sure I didn't pop one or both. OK so far? Then test the system, and if needed change out both stats regardless which one is bad. Correct?
Thanks,
Tim

Sounds good to me, Tim.
Switching out the breaker to a 30 amp should do you. The wiring should already be 10 gauge for the heater circuit. 12 gauge is max for 20 amp.
Good Luck!
Mike

Tim,

Sounds like a plan. Mike has got you covered!

Let us know how you made out

Turns out my problem was indeed with the thermostat setting. I reset it to 140 degrees in the morning, and had plenty of hot water by the time I got home in the afternoon.

Even though the manual says the factory default setting is "HOT", you might want to check it for new installs. My setting was turned all the way counterclockwise, which effectively turned the bottom element off.

Very happy to find it was this easy! Thanks to everyone who responded to this and my other warrenty post.

Thought I had it nailed. The spot-weld from the lead mounting screw broke loose from the element post on the (new) lower element which opened the circuit. Great call to check that first!
OK, changed the element, upgraded to a 30 amp breaker (10/2 guage) and still have the same symptoms. I'm going to backtrack...recheck the elements and then change the stats. I'll keep you informed. Thanks a bunch guys!
P.S. I noticed when I had the elements out and looked inside the tank with a flashlight, I noticed the dip tube had a lot of a white substance on it. Some of it is crusty but most of it is mushy. The rest of the tank is very clean, or what I could see. Are you familiar with that? Just crap in the water?
Thanks,
Tim

Another thing...do you know why is it so difficult to find whirlpool parts (hot water heaters specifically) in search engines? They almost don't exist online. Tim

Tim,

You may find this helpful,

http://www.quillnetmedia.com/diptubes.html

Hope this helps!

Tim,

Here is another

http://www.bathroomshowercurtain.com/Electric_Water_Heater_Repairs/electric_water_heater_repairs.html

Does this help?

Thanks for the sites. I've been checking into the stats and the year made on this tank. I'm sure it's after 96 but you never know. Will keep you informed. Thanks again!!!
Tim

Tim,

You're very welcome.

Maybe one of the other Moderators can assist with this as I am not a plumber, as you can see.

Good Luck!

Got it. The second element I bought was bad also. Par for the course for me. Anyway, thank God it's fixed. Thanks again for all your help!
Tim