Water Heaters - Flame Appearance
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ncsu_go
11-22-04, 09:33 PM
I have a Rheem Fury gas hot water heater (50 gal)...a little over 5 years old. It's had intermittent problems over the course of it's life with the pilot flame going out. In the past, all I had to do was re-light the pilot and it was fine. It seemed that the pilot was most likely to go out during a heavy thunderstorm or other period of moderate to high winds.
In the last few days, however, the pilot has been going out several times a day. And there's been no wind.
After reading this forum, I decided to replace the thermocouple. That didn't work. The pilot will re-light...but when the main burner comes on, it doesn't stay on for long. Maybe a minute or so then cuts off...and the pilot goes with it. So then I made sure that only the tip of the TC was in the flame. No go. Then, I restarted the pilot and the main burner...and checked the flames.
Most of the pilot flame was blue...just a hint of yellow at the tip. But there was a lot of yellow in the main burner flame - maybe 30-40% yellow.
Do I have a combustion air flow problem? There does not appear to be any restriction in the burner. Everything looks clean (not restricted).
Tomorrow morning, I'm not going to have hot water. And I'm thinking about simply calling a professional to get a new hot water heater. Please talk me out of this.
In the last few days, however, the pilot has been going out several times a day. And there's been no wind.
After reading this forum, I decided to replace the thermocouple. That didn't work. The pilot will re-light...but when the main burner comes on, it doesn't stay on for long. Maybe a minute or so then cuts off...and the pilot goes with it. So then I made sure that only the tip of the TC was in the flame. No go. Then, I restarted the pilot and the main burner...and checked the flames.
Most of the pilot flame was blue...just a hint of yellow at the tip. But there was a lot of yellow in the main burner flame - maybe 30-40% yellow.
Do I have a combustion air flow problem? There does not appear to be any restriction in the burner. Everything looks clean (not restricted).
Tomorrow morning, I'm not going to have hot water. And I'm thinking about simply calling a professional to get a new hot water heater. Please talk me out of this.
DUNBAR PLUMBER
11-22-04, 10:01 PM
Check to see if tank is under warranty; you might be able to get the parts needed at no cost if so.
Sharp Advice
11-22-04, 10:06 PM
Hello ncsu_go and Welcome to our Do It Yourself Web Site and the Water Heaters topic.
The pilot has dust in it and so does likely the burner. You will need to remove the entire burner assembly from within the burners firebox. Than us a can of compressed air computer keyboard cleaner to blow out the dust from the pilot assembly.
Than inspect the burner holes and the under side of it. Clean as needed. Reinstall burner assembly and retest. May or may not resolve the problem.
Next possible cause is not correctable. Smothering flames.
Two likely causes.
Restricted intake combustion air or restricted flue.
Restricted Intake Combustion Air:
A lack of incomming air flow from under the tank and into the burner compartment. Bottom of firebox inside burner compartment is a round sheet metal plate. Under it may be dust, lint, pet hair, etc. Must be cleared. Under plate is the air holes in than tanks bottom frame. Those holes must be cleaned out also, if needed.
Restricted Internal Flue Baffle:
Second likely cause, collapsed flue vent baffle. The baffle is inside the flue of the tank. Some baffles become deformed from the heat. A deformed internal baffle restricts the fumes flow up the flue. Which in turn restricts the air flow into the burner compartment.
A restricted or collapsed internal baffle must be replaced, if possible. May not be able to get a new flue vent internal baffle. Have to inquire at a plumbing supply dealer where the plumbing contractors obtain their parts.
As the condition applies, the volume of carbon monoxides levels are extremely high and soot is likely to begin forming in the firebox. A condition that needs immediate attention. Likely to need a professional to resolve. Tank may still be under a warranty.
The pilot has dust in it and so does likely the burner. You will need to remove the entire burner assembly from within the burners firebox. Than us a can of compressed air computer keyboard cleaner to blow out the dust from the pilot assembly.
Than inspect the burner holes and the under side of it. Clean as needed. Reinstall burner assembly and retest. May or may not resolve the problem.
Next possible cause is not correctable. Smothering flames.
Two likely causes.
Restricted intake combustion air or restricted flue.
Restricted Intake Combustion Air:
A lack of incomming air flow from under the tank and into the burner compartment. Bottom of firebox inside burner compartment is a round sheet metal plate. Under it may be dust, lint, pet hair, etc. Must be cleared. Under plate is the air holes in than tanks bottom frame. Those holes must be cleaned out also, if needed.
Restricted Internal Flue Baffle:
Second likely cause, collapsed flue vent baffle. The baffle is inside the flue of the tank. Some baffles become deformed from the heat. A deformed internal baffle restricts the fumes flow up the flue. Which in turn restricts the air flow into the burner compartment.
A restricted or collapsed internal baffle must be replaced, if possible. May not be able to get a new flue vent internal baffle. Have to inquire at a plumbing supply dealer where the plumbing contractors obtain their parts.
As the condition applies, the volume of carbon monoxides levels are extremely high and soot is likely to begin forming in the firebox. A condition that needs immediate attention. Likely to need a professional to resolve. Tank may still be under a warranty.
ncsu_go
11-23-04, 08:31 PM
Here's an update:
I called a professional today (hard to admit that on the doityourself forum). He found two problems:
1. The inlet air duct for my water heater is inside the exhaust/flue gas duct...I assume for preheating? The inlet air duct wasn't blocked afterall. The duct joint had come loose (where the end of one piece simply pushes into the end of the next) and was allowing to the two gas streams to mix. This was fixed easily. Now the flame is much more blue...still just a hint of yellow at the tips but much better than yesterday. The burner area is also much quieter now than it's ever been in the past.
2. The thermocouple that I installed yesterday...the one that didn't fix my problem...was installed too tightly. The plumber said that he'd seen that before and backed-it off a couple of turns.
I still don't know if everything's fixed, though. The flame has gone out once since the guy left. I'm hoping that's just the effect of some condensation but time will tell. If it goes out again between now and tomorrow morning, I'm splurging for a new heater.
One last thing...in another thread, someone asked about the State brand of water heaters. The plumbing company I used today sells that brand. I checked out the website...one nice feature (maybe other brands have this too) is the sightglass to enable you to look into the burner to see what's going on. Given that I've opened my access door about 15 million times now, that's a good feature to me!!
I called a professional today (hard to admit that on the doityourself forum). He found two problems:
1. The inlet air duct for my water heater is inside the exhaust/flue gas duct...I assume for preheating? The inlet air duct wasn't blocked afterall. The duct joint had come loose (where the end of one piece simply pushes into the end of the next) and was allowing to the two gas streams to mix. This was fixed easily. Now the flame is much more blue...still just a hint of yellow at the tips but much better than yesterday. The burner area is also much quieter now than it's ever been in the past.
2. The thermocouple that I installed yesterday...the one that didn't fix my problem...was installed too tightly. The plumber said that he'd seen that before and backed-it off a couple of turns.
I still don't know if everything's fixed, though. The flame has gone out once since the guy left. I'm hoping that's just the effect of some condensation but time will tell. If it goes out again between now and tomorrow morning, I'm splurging for a new heater.
One last thing...in another thread, someone asked about the State brand of water heaters. The plumbing company I used today sells that brand. I checked out the website...one nice feature (maybe other brands have this too) is the sightglass to enable you to look into the burner to see what's going on. Given that I've opened my access door about 15 million times now, that's a good feature to me!!