Tools, Sharpening and Power Machinery - Investing in Power Tools: Need Advice

Hello,

I'm looking to purchase a few smaller power tools -- drill, circular saw, etc. -- and was wondering if you could share your opinions on brands and their relative merits. Basically, I'm a novice and don't know for instance, if cordless is a good idea or not and how much more to you really get from the premium stuff. I'd like to buy American if possible. Thanks for any tips.

-UFC

Cordless tools (18v+) do a spectacular job most of the time, but you will need the power of corded tools too sometimes. I have a DeWalt cordless set and I couldn't get by without them. Sorry I can't compare them to anything else, but if anything it's because I haven't needed or wanted anything else. For larger jobs I still use my miter saw and radial arm saw to cut wood. I'm curious to know how well cordless nail guns work. Seems unlikely they could keep up with compressed air.

hi
You can look here. I buy all my tools from them
homier.com. grizzly.com
cheer

Moderator note: Links removed

Stay away from Craftsman,I prefer PorterCable & Milwaukee both corded & cordless.

Batteries for cordless tools discharge even when unused, so most of my tools are corded. A good cordless drill (12 or 14.4 volts) from a name-brand source (PC, Milwaukee, Makita, Bosch, Hitachi) is a later addition.

Corded drill - DeWalt 3/8" with keyless chuck
Corded circular saw - 7-1/4" Porter Cable, Milwaukee, Makita
Corded jigsaw - Dewalt
Corded angle grinder - 5" wheel, 8.5 amp rating Milwaukee, Metabo

While you're at it, get a medium metalworking vise, some C-clamps and a work bench to hold whatever you're working on. Safety glasses and ear plugs will help as well.

fine woodworking / home building tautam press publishes a tool guide

I have last years (the first ) but havent bought this years yet .

I would recommend you take a look at them , lots of good info and evalutions

A lot depends on what, and how much you are going to be doing. Wood magazine tests tools every issue and you can probably find back issues at the library. Don't rely on one brand. Each has there good and bad for different tools. Check on ease of changing the working parts (blades etc). Premium tools are great, if they aren't just sitting in your garage or shop 90% of the time. Judge too, by the quality of work you want to do. (are you going to build with plywood or oak?) Just some things to consider. Good luck.

Alot also depends on how the tool feels in your hand...by weight, balance and ease of operation.

Selecting tools is a very subjective thing that will depend on your budget and how often you'll be using them. Skil, Black & Decker, Craftsman & Ryobi all make decent 'homeowner' quality tools that will work just fine for many years as long as they're not abused.

The biggest differences between 'homeowner quality' and 'professional grade' tools are internal. The pro grade stuff has better motors, bearings, switches, etc. for durability which loosely translates to $$$$ :D

Another important factor is the 'feel' of the tool. A good tool feels like an extension of your arm and hand. Go to a store and handle several brands of the same tool. Some will just 'feel' better than others.

If you get cordless tools, make sure you have at least one more battery than you have tools and keep the charger handy 24/7. When you have to change a battery, make sure you put the old one in the charger. Nothing is more aggravating than to go dead in the water because you don't have a charged battery handy. :eek:

"Another important factor is the 'feel' of the tool. A good tool feels like an extension of your arm and hand. Go to a store and handle several brands of the same tool. Some will just 'feel' better than others."
.
Ah yes.. as I said... 'FEEL' of the tool in your hand is most important IMO.
"Zen..and the art of craftsmenship" - is my point of view.
If the tool doesnt feel 'comfortable' to you... dont buy it!
You have to work with it...and feel comfortable doing so. If not, than its not worth it to me...no matter how good the deal may seem.
Just my $.02 worth!!

Lot's of good advice above here. I'd definitely agree with the comment about each manufacturer having good and bad. In my truck and shop I probably have at least one tool from every manufacturer and would find it nearly impossible to pick an overall best manufacturer. I have good assortment of battery tools as well as corded. - I love my De Walt 14.4 drill, but also have the Ryobi 14.4 that's almost as good ( at a third of the price !)
I wouldn't part with my Porter Cable laminate trimmer, but again I have a Ryobi that is almost as good and FEELS much nicer, ( good point Jatco) .
The only tip I would add to all this good advice- make sure your batteries are COMPLETELY drained before putting them on charge and they will last longer. (I use an elastic band around triggers for this)

Good point too, Nomind, about draining the batteries.

The comments about batteries raise an interesting issue. Every tool company has a different battery for each of their tool lines (i.e. 9.6v, 12v, 14.4v, 18v, etc) and they aren't interchangable (i.e. you can't put a Makita battery in a Porter Cable tool). If you get a variety of tools by different manufacturers, you'll soon have a shelf full of battery chargers.

There's a lot to be said for buying one of the 'kits' with 3-5 tools that all run on the same battery.

As far as completely discharging a battery before putting it in the charger, I've heard different stories. When I bought my first Makita 9.6v cordless drill 20 yrs ago, the story was that the battery would develop a 'memory' if it wasn't completely discharged and wouldn't last very long. That first battery lasted around 10 yrs and I had my doubts about that bit of 'conventional wisdom' - lol. The owners manuals for my Ryobi 14.4v drills (I have 2) and circular saw don't say anything about this one way or another.

Here is a link with some good info on cordless tool batteries.
As the article explains, completely draining batteries shortens their life.

Click image:
<img src="http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/media/h00106_01.jpg"> (http://www.taunton.com/finehomebuilding/pages/h00106.asp)
Image credit: tauton.com

Thanks Greg - that was very informative. I think I'll print some copies and pass them along to a few well meaning friends. :D

Yes, very interesting article.
I wonder if that applies to other applications/rechargeable batteries..ie for cameras etc.??

Here is a quote from the above linked article that I believe applies to all of today's rechargeables.


Finally, no matter what contradictory advice you may have heard, never fully discharge a battery. For years, carpenters have passed along the myth that batteries have memories, and if not fully discharged, they won't fully charge. I've even seen carpenters tape a drill's trigger down to extract every last electron from a battery. This action reverses cells and makes your batteries die young. Use the battery only until you notice a power loss that affects performance, and then recharge the battery.
From: Understanding Cordless Batteries by Gary M. Katz

jatco -

I would bet it does. My cell phone is on 24/7 and I put it on the charger overnight whenever the battery indicator shows reduced charge. My digital camera sits in the charging cradle anytime I'm not using it. Quite frankly, I can't imagine letting either of them run completely down. :eek:

So I'll take the information, say in my digital camera's 'User Guide' to accept that when the 'Remaining Battery Indicator' shows 'Full' (in this case), that its time to change them....whatever (if any) power is left in them!

jatco,

Sorry, not sure what you mean.

Gary M. Katz is a carpenter and writer in Reseda, California. He

I dont know If I would take a carpenters word as the gospel on rechargeable batterys. ( just as I wouldnt look to a electrical engineer for finish carpentry advice )

It is a interesting topic and I would like to see further discussion of it here .

j

mango man,

You are absolutely correct in that when considering any information you must satisfy yourself with the accuracy of what is being offered.
The fact that the article is authored by an individual that works in a different discipline, does not alone make his article less valid than information provided by someone "qualified".

I also agree that more discussion on this would be good.
The information presented in the article is along the lines of what I have read elsewhere and confirms what I already "believe" about the subject.
I was wrong, I think only once (:D) before, and maybe I'm wrong about this subject.

I'm afraid it's hunting season and have buck fever really bad. I don't have time or motivation to research this further right now.
You are more than welcome to throw different search terms on this subject into Google to see what you can dig up and get back to us.

The old saying "you get what you pay for" applies especially when you are buying tools (both hand and power tools). When I started buying tools, I bought the best I could afford, and most of my tools are still going strong (some well over 20 years later). For cost savings, consider buying used tools also. I have bought some really nice power tools locally and on ebay for a fraction of the cost of new tools.

What I was referring to, Greg, is in regards to 'discharging' rechargeable batteries 'manually' .. VS just running them to the point that they dont operate the power tool to its capacity. As such, in the case with digital cameras. When the 'Battery Indicator' is full (ie, on my camera) that means its time to recharge or replace the batteries. Does that mean the battery is fully discharged??? - or just discharged to the point where it doesnt operate the camera to its 'normal' capacity? Is there any juice left in the battery..or is it fully 'empty'..hense needing recharge.
The other day, on a job when my Ryobi drill didnt 'drill' anymore, I changed batteries and put that one in the flashlite...to discharge it more. (Which I wont do anymore.. I only did that the 1 time after ready the articale about forcing a 'full' discharge). That battery worked the flashlight quite fine...for about a 1/2 hour...Enough juice for the light..but not enough for the drill.

WOW, I started a real controversial issue there. I will concede that GregH has some very good points, as does the article he linked. I wasn't specific enough in my comment, that there are many kinds of batteries . Some do develop memory, some don't. The newer NiMh and Lion do not. Many of the older NiCad do. Very good points about room temperature, and the cold or heat having a bad effect on ANY battery. A good rule I still use from my days of working on aircraft was NEVER use or charge a battery that is warm. We always waited at least an hour after charging to hook a battery up ( those were early NiCad). As many of you still seem interested, some good info can also be found at www. batterybank.com at Home.Howstuffworks.com.

Nomind,

Good link! Link (http://www.batterybank.com/page18.html)

There is some info on memory that reinforces the idea that you can reverse the polarity on a cell by draining it to too low a voltage.

Considering that cordless drill sales are outnumbering corded ones for residential use, this information is very timely.

Once the snow starts blowing and the temperature drops here I'll make a sticky on this subject.

I guess by now the poor guy who asked advice here is thouroughly confused.
- Hey Ukiah, at least we all agree that cordless tool are a good idea.

Hey GregH, how do you do that 'link' thing, and also the funnies that you and Jatco have by your name? i'd be grateful if you can explain that to computer newbies like me, thanks

Yes, this thread did stray off the original question but there is a lot of usefull info that is related.

Here (http://forum.doityourself.com/faq.php?faq=vb_faq#faq_vb_user_maintain) is an FAQ that has information on how things work around here.

thanks Greg, that helped a lot. i should have read througfh that when I joined i suppose, but I'm having too much fun reading all the threads. - Fascinating stuff !

wow guys. thanks for all the useful info. this is a great site.

after listening to you and doing a little window shopping, i guess i'm leaning a little toward one of the cordless multi-tool sets from dewalt or milwakee etc. any advice for which one is best given that the bulk of my work will be framing of simple wooden structures like sheds and a barn (hard to get electric cords out there)?

I think thaat if you are planning to frame "sheds and a barn" that the best option for a circular saw would be a corded one and a heavy guage extension cord.
That type of use would seriously tax a cordless circular saw.

If you doing mostly framing work, I would definitely go with an 18v (or more) kit and have 2-3 extra batteries on hand.

if your looking at cordless sets don't rule out the ryobi

I bought this set ryobi 18 volt (http://www.homedepot.com/prel80/HDUS/EN_US/diy_main/pg_diy.jsp?BV_SessionID=@@@@0015867469.1101348479@@@@&BV_EngineID=ccehadddefmdegkcgelceffdfgidgmk.0&CNTTYPE=PROD_META&CNTKEY=Super%20Categories/Tools%20%26%20Hardware&MID=9876&pos=p06) last year and have been pleased with it

I use the tools fairly hard and have had no problems for a year now

they are replacing the 14 volt ryobi drill that lasted me 6 + years

at 250.00 for the set , a lot of bang for the buck in my opion

Right on , Mango Man, - Ryobi make good tools, and reasonable prices too. I have their 14.4 drill, the laminate trimmer (nicer than my Porter Cable) and their small reciprocating saw.
Value for your buck !! :)

You can add my vote to the pro-Ryobi gang. :) A lot of people seem to think that Ryobi (or Skil, Black & Decker, Craftsman, etc) tools are almost beneath contempt, but my own experience over the past 25+ years says otherwise. I've used (and still use) several tools by these companies and they've almost always done just fine. (That Skil benchtop bandsaw I got in the mid-80's was a POS from day one. :( )

You should probably lean toward the high-end brands for tools that are heavily used, but 'homeowner' grade tools will probably work well for everything else.

cordless tools are somewhat like computers to me

when I bought my Ryobi set last year home depot was offering a lifetime warranty (including batteries ) on the Rigid set

well besides being 2 and 1/2 times the price truth is 4 - 6 years from now cordless technology will have advanced to the point that I'll probably want new tools anyway.

my first cordless drill was a makita 7.2 volt (?) didnt have a removable battery pack charger just plugged into the handle didint do much more than drive screws but hey it was "cordless"

then I had a few 9.6 volt makitas , a 12 volt dewalt , 14.4 volt ryobi and now the 18 volt ryobi

4 , 5 years from now 36 , 40 volt ? battery packs that last all day ?

Good point Mango man - about technology. Wouldnt that be nice to have powerpacks to last all day.
I really like my Ryobi 18v drill..which came with only the flashlight..(for my price range at HD CAD). Dont know why I didnt buy one sooner than I did. I use it all the time!

cordless tools are somewhat like computers to me

when I bought my Ryobi set last year home depot was offering a lifetime warranty (including batteries ) on the Rigid set

well besides being 2 and 1/2 times the price truth is 4 - 6 years from now cordless technology will have advanced to the point that I'll probably want new tools anyway.

my first cordless drill was a makita 7.2 volt (?) didnt have a removable battery pack charger just plugged into the handle didint do much more than drive screws but hey it was "cordless"

then I had a few 9.6 volt makitas , a 12 volt dewalt , 14.4 volt ryobi and now the 18 volt ryobi

4 , 5 years from now 36 , 40 volt ? battery packs that last all day ?

Personally, I don't forsee that things can get much bigger than 24V. Nowadays 18V are common, but many people still prefer using 9.6V, 12V and 14.4V tools as they are much lighter than 18V and is adequate for the tasks they are performing. 24V is too heavy for most common tasks, and you tire out easily. Can you imagine yourself drilling with a 36V drill that is twice as heavy as the 18V drill you are currently using?

Paulgoh,
- never underestimate the power of advancing technology,

- 35 years ago in the Air Force I worked on a missile control unit that weighed 1800 lbs and hung under the wing, now essentially the same thing fits in a box the size of a paperback and plugs into the pilot's helmet.

- my first calculator was the size of an average auto manual , I have one in my watch now.

- the battery of my first cellphone was four times the size of the entire phone I use now (and didn't last as long)

- and so on ad infinitum - - - - :cool:

Hmm...Makita made their first cordless drill more than 25 years ago, so cordless technology is not exactly new, but rather very mature already. Have you noticed that some stuff never get smaller despite many years of innovations? Things like hand tools (ratchets, sockets and stuff) stayed pretty much the same weight and size for hundreds of years, although the design has changed somewhat. Things like TVs got bigger, as people think that bigger is better. I really don't foresee a drastic change in the technology behind cordless tools in our lifetime unless some amazing technological break-through happened, but even if there are some amazing technological break-through, would you like to use a circular saw the size of your cell phone? :p I would like to suggest that there are certain optimal size for some things in this world that we live in, and when we forcefully innovate beyond the optimal size, it will severely limit the usefulness of the thing, and I believe cordless/corded power tools are one of these things. I guess we could easily make a powerful corded circular saw that is half the size of the smallest corded circular saw that ever existed, but will it be useful enough for the majority of us? Do you want to sit on a chair that is half the normal size?

btw...even as we speak, Hilti came up with a 36v drill that weighs more than 10 pounds:
Linky (http://www.us.hilti.com/holus/modules/prcat/prca_navigation.jsp?OID=-14999)

Review about the drill:
Linky (http://www.toolsofthetrade.net/articles/showarticle.asp?articleID=1545&position=1&type=article&partID=1)

I bought my first makita , refrenced above in the early 80's so I have been a user prety much from inseption.

no I wouldnt want a 36 volt that was twice as heavy as my 18 volt , but my 18 volt dosen't weigh twice as much as a 9 volt .

battery technology along with other technology grows rapidly you may not need higher voltages motor technology may advance so that a 18 volt will use less power and be more powerfull .

my point really is todays cordless tool offerings are far more usefull and versitle than what was availible 6 years ago when I bought my 14 volt and they where more versitile then they had been a few years before when I bought my 12 volt ect ect

Like I mentioned earlier my first cordless really didint do much as they have progressed they have become a more usefull tool they still dont equall corded performance

I far prefer my 18v over the 12v set I was using 10 years ago and I expect to be using something better than the 18 v set 10 years from now